BR Diesel Class 44/45/46 Loco Design Co.

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There have been adverts in The Magazine for the plans & cab mouldings for the BR Class 44/45/46 Sulzer diesel which ran over the Midland mainlines & beyond for some time now.

Have these adverts fired the imagination of you members & have you thought about building a Class 44/45/46 ?

The wheel arrangement is 1-Co-Co-1 and there are several preserved examples to look at, admire & when running watch & listen to them running on preserved lines. They are all withdrawn from mainline revenue service now & have drifted into the annals of history. They succeeded Jubilee 4-6-0's on trains like the "Thames-Clyde Express", "The Devonian". They also hauled heavy coal trains from the Midlands coal fields to London.

The first 10 examples were named after "peaks" so they became affectionately known as "Peaks" which was extended to the whole series 44/45/46 even though many were un-named & others named after regiments & other novel sometimes unofficial names.

Now, it just so happens that there are 2 other known attempts at building one of these. One is intended to be a true diesel as you may have read threads in other sections of this forum.

However, my simple solution is RC battery. Plenty of room for control & special effects kit in the capacious boxy body.

There could be 3 examples potentially in the East Midlands alone! Unless of course you know different.

So come on guys, lets us know who is doing what, how far have you got, which loco are you building?
Do you know anybody who has already done one whether member or not?

Have any snags in construction been found?

Found any errors in Chris Barron's drawings?

Any modifications to design been made?

I will come out of the closet & state that I have commenced construction of a BR Class 44 as constructed in Derby in the late 50's. Have found problems in the design. Have made mods. But progress has become quite slow due to other distractions i.e. modular baseboard construction.

So hoping to read your comments & suggestions to make a better model of a mainline BR diesel from the 60's

Cheers
Dave
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[cabbage]

Well as both of the other two know I intend to build a Class 97 'Ixion". Wether I use a diesel (glow) motor I am not too sure of at the moment. This is because glow fuel prices have gone through the roof and make even petrol prices look cheap... There is a petrol conversion for the type of glow motor that I intend using but this almost doubles the price of the engine -but it runs on far cheaper(?) fuel.

The two gearbox motors specified in the plans are an "EERRRMMM...." for me. The 944 "precious metal brushes" version (PMB) should be the only one specified as the price difference is marginal for the traction difference. I also think that he should have given some thought as to specifying the type of ESC (amperage and voltage rating) that would be required for the loco. I believe that the PMB can be run at 15volts and draws 0.25Amps despite the stated rating on the MFA web site that limits it to 12Volts 0.2Amps.

This puts the motors into 14.4Volt "Tamiya RacePacks" and could put father and son at odds with each other!!!

There seems to be enough room in the internals for two 6volt 4.5Ah SLA -which would be my first port of call for battery power. Charging gel cells vertically is always a problem so I envisage a flip top lid for my version. Despite the plans I think that I will use plywood laminated with ABS sheeting rather than MDF -which I have always found to be vile to work with... I like the laser cut steel parts (I would prefer water cut) -I would have dreaded cutting the plates from BMS sheet! I am not sure about the nose -I think that home surgery and "rhinoplasty" is required to get them "right". I will probably build one and then cast two from it. I cannot see any major constructional problems -there are things I will do differently. I will probably silver solder the bogie frames as well as bolting them together. The entire thing will also be metric -despite 40 years living here I still haven't got used to Imperial measurements.

But I can tell it is less than a pint when the glass is put on the bar(!)

Not too sure about using PVA glue -I would probably use Aliphatic glue for the ply and thinned down epoxy for the ABS sheet laminate. WARNING to anybody who has never used Aliphatic glue before. Make sure you you scrub your hands thoroughly before attempting to eat things like sandwiches or crisps.... They put a bittering flavour in it to stop kids eating it (It looks like salad cream) -enough said!!!

regards

ralph

[454]

Thanks Ralph, head now above the parapet.

Ixion is an interesting choice, was a research vehicle. Particularly the paint job of  97 403 which it had at the Railway Technical Centre at Derby was quite striking.

Numbers during its lifetime were : D172 then 46035 a Gateshead loco then to Departmental stock as 97403 from 1984 to 1991 now I believe Ixion though has been converted back to a conventional loco & is stored at "The Railway Age"/"Crewe heritage Centre".

Now I'm peeping above the parapet this time:

Sadly, my 44 would never have existed. I was always a bit mystified as to the fact the 44's were built in Derby, in Derbyshire. The highest point of which is over 2000 feet and is called "Kinder Scout" & a local peak name was never selected by the naming authorities. So my version will be D0 (don't laugh) i.e. a prototype might have been.

Kinder Scout is the highest "peak" nearest to Derby, the site of manufacture in the famous railway works.

Construction has commenced. The body is made of 6mm MDF. The roof is thin ply steamed over roof formers. The cab ends are being fabricated from thin ply steam bent & formed, MDF & filler. The design has been modified so that the cabs may be slid onto a tongue at each end of the floor pan & butted against the end body former. When the cab interior & detailing has been completed the cabs will be secured & blended in with filler to the final body profile prior to painting. The roof will then no longer be removable but there will be access hatches in positions where access hatches can be expected on the prototype.

I have no skill in resin moulding so I will have to make cabs the hard way. My Plan B is to use the plastic mouldings which I have a pair of in my possession. The shape of which is very wrong & does not look quite right. But could be doctored using Ralph's rhinoplasty concept. These could be available for disposal if Plan A succeeds.

The bogie frames, buffer beams & frame stretchers plus motor mounts have been ordered from Model Engineers Laser, delivery was very swift, very good service. Drilling, tapping & assembly has already commenced.

The axles will be made of ground silver steel of 10mm diameter to fit in flanged steel bearings lined with PTFE impregnated bronze. The wheels will be turned from BMS stock. The motors will be hung on each driven axle so that there will be 6 off MFA Como drill motors using a Delrin gear acting on another gear bolted on the inside face of the driven wheel. The bogies will be pivoted on a "lazy susan" turntable bearing.

The axle journals will be sprung in sliding horn blocks in horn guides. The leaf springs will be dummies but sadly no castings are available so patterns will need to be made despite Chris Barron suggesting availability from the 2.5 lads.

The NiMH batteries will be selected to provide 14.4 volts to all motors connected in parallel using an Electronize ESC.
The radio will be seperately powered by AAA NiMH cells on a separate circuit. The traction batteries will be mounted on a removable tray which will lift out from the engine access roof hatch.

There will be a sound card with yet another seperate battery circuit. The sounds will be start up, diesel revving, tickover, running sound, two tone horn.

Hope to secure a smoke unit to drive a cloud of smoke on demand from the exhaust stack.

The special features will all be controllable from RC using RC switch relays.

The head code lights will be wired using diodes & will be selectable under a small hatch on the roof by miniature DIL switches.

The head code discs as on the early locos will be operational i.e folding into a half disc when not in use.
Metal etches hopefully will be available from a well known local member in the fullness of time.

The buffers as on the plan will not be used as they interfere with the bogie side frames at the correct G3 lateral spacing. So self contained BR buffers will be used mounted directly onto the surface of the beam. Yet another local member will be supplying these.

The bogies will both be mounted onto a common metal plate secured to the underside of the floorpan allowing the rolling chassis to be released from the body.

Hope this gives a bit of food for thought.

This saga will continue hopefully with pics later..........

Dave
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[blagdon]

These classes of locomotive are the 'first real interest' machines of my becoming a life long rail nut. Also admire the Brush 'Type 4's' (class 47 to the younger members); my brother nearly did his engineering apprenticeship with Brush at Loughborough, I was most disappointed he ended up in aviation division of Smith's Industries.

Being the 'Pirate', I can't wait to tell some Big-Wig at Didcot that I am glad their latest La-La project is a 47 as I always wanted to see a Brush 'Type 4' in the collection!

Ian the Gauge '3' Pirate

[MikeWilliams]

Dave,

If the ends for the Peak were the catalyst for you to start work, but are not up to scratch, have you thought how to make some more?  JLTRT make a nice Peak in 7mm and I suspect their ends are cast from patterns solid printed.  Pete Waterman was experimenting with a new printer for this when I visited him about four years ago.  If I am right he would be able to re-scale and print a Gauge 3 pattern very easily.  That doesn't mean the price to you would necessarily be cheap, but the cost to him would be low, so they might be interested.

Mike

[454]

Mike
This is the cab I detached from the main body to give an idea as to progress so far. The cab is made from thin ply steam bent & glued to the MDF subfloor & cab back. Body filler has been used for the contoured surfaces. It is in primer. Needs some filler to remove some surface defects. Then decide what to do next.

The 3D printer route was considered but thought I would tackle the task by hand first.

Dave
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[454]

More pics.

Showing detachable cab base in MDF for other cab end.
The floor pan modified to provide a slotted tongue for sliding location of the dowels in the cab floor.

Dave
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[454]

If the ends for the Peak were the catalyst for you to start work, but are not up to scratch, have you thought how to make some more?  JLTRT make a nice Peak in 7mm and I suspect their ends are cast from patterns solid printed.  Pete Waterman was experimenting with a new printer for this when I visited him about four years ago.  If I am right he would be able to re-scale and print a Gauge 3 pattern very easily.  That doesn't mean the price to you would necessarily be cheap, but the cost to him would be low, so they might be interested.

Mike

Mike,
Have just contacted JLRT & the show stopper was that the cost would be "In the thousands" to quote them.
So I will press on with the current plan.

Cheers
Dave
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[MikeWilliams]

Well Dave, at that price they deserve to fail.  It might cost that for a professional to draw the whole thing from scratch, but they've already done that!

Anyway, your wooden one looks pretty good to me and its not an easy thing to make.  Not sure I could do it at all  Well done.

Mike

[454]

Current status of project - 9 Sept. 2013

See attached photo for parts layout.

These include partially erected bogie no.1 frames work in progress, this is my priority task to complete the drilling & tapping of the first bogie assembly at this time.

Motor assemblies mocked up to show placement of the 6 traction motors.
One assembly with motor & gear drive visible.

Set of roof hatches awaiting roof skin using all ply construction.

Main body with access hatches cut & finished to take hatches.

Once cabs finished & fitted the body & detachable roof will be glued up together as a single entity. Body filler used then a first coat of primer after sanding to a smooth finish. Only internal access will be through the

Sets of laser cut steel parts for bogie nos.1 & 2
Note the leading axle is on a pony truck & these parts are laid out together with the flanged bearings which have been standardised throughout.

Other parts are the body brass bogie rubbing strips & body support stretchers.

Buffer beams, turntable bearings.

The turntable bearings were selected specially with the central hole, as some can be obtained filled in. This was an idea I had to ventilate the motors using a pair on fans, one on each bogie. At this stage I do not know if they will get hot or not.

Note the radiator grills for the bonnet sides. Photocopy on thin ply. This is the idea I have for the main grills on the main body sides but this will be one of the last fittings to be attached by being glued on later.

Dave
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[454]

During my "not material shaping moments" I have been contemplating how to make the LED lights operate to give the BR head codes that on steam locos use lamps.

The trick I am going to use is a PIC ( PICAXE ) integrated circuit which I will programme.

In addition to the on/off switch there will be 2 control input switches for the headcode selector.
One switch will select Cab 1 or Cab 2, the other will be a push button. The cab selector will determine which end the red tail lights will glow when the loco is on the light engine code and also which end the headlamps will glow otherwise.

The headcode selector switch will set the lamp code, it will just be a case of pushing a push button concealed on the underbody of the loco in a sequence to reveal the desired code from "all off" to "all on Royal Train style".

Of course as usual it will be necessary to know the codes in order to set the lights appropriately for the class of train to be hauled.

Only 5 outputs will be needed from the PIC chip. Lamps 1 to 4 & which cab (1 or 2) logical 0 or 1.
A relay will then despatch the power to the appropriate cab end bonnet.

Once I have devised this neat little device & programmed it I guess it will be useful to others modelling locos that require to use a lamp head code for correct operation in ANY scale.

If anybody knows of a commercial device currently on the market please let me know as I have an aversion to "re-inventing the wheel".

Last thought, why did I not think of doing a modern image "peak" instead, there are less lights & less complication?

no nostalgia is the answer.

Dave
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[AllWight]

Hi Dave.

On the 2 car 117 unit I have some items of electrical componenants. When I get home I will look them up for you. Also of worthy note the tail lamps on the loco would only be lit when running light engine. So there is another lighting programme for you to consider.

Mark

[IanT]

Not a 'commercial' alternative (not ready to run) Dave but an Arduino Uno (or similar) may be an interesting alternative for some.

I've not looked up the 'PICAXE' but most PIC chips need a PIC programmer and either some PIC assembler or 'C' knowledge. The Arduino is an interesting alternative option for experimenting with this kind of "programmable" problem I think.

The Ardunio is programmed directly from a USB connection to your PC/Laptop in the high level Ardunio (a simplified 'C' type) language. Once 'programmed' the unit can run standalone, although it will then needs a power supply (which can be a simple battery).

My UNO cost under £20 (inc USB cable) and the software is all free (e.g. downloadable) with a full library of routines to drive sensors, DC motors, steppers etc. It worked immediately on plug in and I was able to play with the simple demo 'sketches' provided to learn my way around. It has been specifically designed to enable schools/hobbyists to interact with the real world. There's lots of info on the web, just Google "Ardunio". They also come in some quite small form factors (the Ardunio Nano for instance).

Just a thought.

Regards,

IanT

[454]

Mark

Light engine mode already considered, read my original text once more, I guess it is cryptically hidden. You might have missed it.

Ian,

Thanks Ian, I know you are an enthusiast of Arduino & yes I am aware of the Arduino, but the PICAXE has a BASIC to PIC code compiler built in. My level of expertise of PICAXE at this time enables me to flash LED's on & off & make buzzing sounds on a small loudspeaker & flick relays. So OK it's early days but I am not far off coming up with a design in both hardware & a software programme to make it happen in lash up form. Blending it into the bonnets at each end of my Peak & wiring it up internally will be a more challenging matter. Like the lamp shrouds that will hide the LEDs.
Thought about turning them up from brass round stock.

All
Will upload a demo to Youtube when perfected, but before loco incorporation just to whet appetites for novelty value.

Cheers
Dave

[454]

Well it has been some little while since the last report of Peak progress on "Kinder Scout" No 44000.
So here is the latest, you might have seen the traction motor photo on another thread within this forum, there are 6 constructed at this time & one bogie almost completed. Still working on the horn guides.

The second bogie frame components are work in progress re: drilling & tapping, with only the 2nd buffer beam being ready to fit when the side frames have been prepared.

The photo attached shows half a loco, "nearly" one front end, early embryonic rear end. Front bogie trial installation completed. Buffers, coupling hook & links fitted. Sandboxes carved out of basswood & fitted. The dummy front suspension covers have been carved out of basswood & fitted to the buffer beam.

The pony truck has downforce springing using a spring loaded piston acting on the truck. To help centring the pony truck side control springs have been fitted. The loco's bogies separately will negotiate an 8 feet radius point with no binding. The hope is the loco will also.  The side play of the drivers has to be carefully adjusted using machined to size washers between the wheels & the horn blocks.

The bogie is mounted on a turntable bearing  & bolted to a mild steel plate stretching along 300 mm either side of the transverse centre line. This allows the whole mechanism of 2 bogies to be run as a dis-embodied locomotive.

The body height to bogie is spot on when all levelled, this is a relief to me as I have deviated from drawing by not using the pivot stretcher as specified by Chris Barron. But the sandwich of 2 steel plates with a turntable bearing is roughly the same thickness as the original pivot bearing stretcher, which I have rejected as being unstable & potentially wobbly. The T/T bearing is quite stable in rock & roll so I cannot be happier.

Once the cabs have been finished, they will be sealed to the rest of the body & the roof sealed to the body with waterproof PVA. The roof hatches will allow service to the interior services e.g. battery & RC/ESC etc. The only access to the interior body will be through the roof hatches. More major access will require the body to be separated from the bogie stretcher plate by 8 off 4mm bolts.

The ESC is bolted to the mild steel double bogie base stretcher plate & the plate will act as a heat sink if necessary.

At this time I am a bit concerned as due to the time taken to fettle these model components, the mild steel is becoming a bit rusty. So I am wondering at what stage I ought to apply paint. Have already applied a bit of primer to the roof wood simply for cosmetic purposes to make the plywood fabrications look a bit more uniform in texture while I consider how I am going to make it look shiny before I "dirty" it.

All the metal work has been cut by Model Engineers Laser. The nameplate, works plate & shed plate have been received from Guilplates. The gears are from HPC gears. The motors are from Technobots. The ESC is an Electronize bought direct from Electronize.

I have not yet decided what RC to use yet. As there will be multi function requirements towards the finished model. I have been thinking of using a Revolution to take advantage of the functions. An ordinary RC set up with 2 relays may not give me what is needed.

There it is, hopefully the next report will be that of the "single bogie" track test scheduled for Jan 2014.
Irrespective of the condition of completeness the model as work in progress should be on display in Feb 2014 at the AGM gathering at Biggleswade (hopefully).

So watch this space.

Dave
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