Recycled Plastic Board....Have You Had Any Problems?

[John Candy]

Since it was raining and I was "at a loose end", I ended up browsing through various large scale garden railway websites.

I was alarmed to read of problems with the expansion/distortion of recycled plastic board reported by one GScaleCentral Forum member, who ripped it all up and replaced with plywood.

<quote>
I've tried recycled plastics for my railway extension but have had to go back to wood. The great summer we've had has caused the plastic to do warp and sag despite pillars every 1 1/2 foot. It was an expensive mistake for me. If your railway is in a shady area you might be alright.
I've had 4 years out of my 18mm sealed exterior plywood before some sections needed replacing but at least it can withstand all weathers.
Ross - See more at: http://www.forum.gscalecentral.net/Anyone-Tried-Eco-Sheet-as-Outdoor-Baseboard-m287845.aspx#sthash.h8KypLG2.dpuf
</quote>

You will know from earlier messages that I had a problem with "banana" shaped plastic posts which expanded unevenly when exposed to the Sun.

I have already a substantial quantity of the boards (and more on order from Filcris) so you will understand my concerns!

The majority of my boards are the grey "Eco board" which is much more rigid than the brown (very flexible) stuff which Filcris sell in strips for garden railway use.

I re-examined the "brown" boards which where screwed to the side "runners" during hot weather and find that the board is now like a "roller-coaster"!

Fortunately, these boards are still in storage and have not been "laid" but will have to be dis-assembled.
I shall now dispense with the "runners" and screw the board to 10 ft lengths of 4ins x 2ins tanalised timber which will (I hope) prevent it from twisting.

This negates the benefits of using the plastic, since this section of track is at ground level and the whole idea was that the plastic board could be set into the ground and located by pouring concrete, without risk of rot.


John.

[454]

Completely happy with mine John. Perhaps my original plans were not too ambitious. Have now seen both extremes of temperature in Derby & satisfied it can't get any worse. So my circuit has survived. Was using GRS brass track, a better combination than the stainless steel on the plastic base.

Dave
454

[Peaky 556]

The majority of my boards are the grey "Eco board" which is much more rigid than the brown (very flexible) stuff which Filcris sell in strips for garden railway use.

I re-examined the "brown" boards which where screwed to the side "runners" during hot weather and find that the board is now like a "roller-coaster"!

Dave - re the two types of plastic board mentioned by John above, can you be clear which type(s) you have used and where, and whether any is buried in soil or concrete? I have thought of using it for suspended sections behind the workshop, where it will be on the North side and hence shady.
Regards, Tim 

[joewatt]

After the time, effort and money I spent on my 'Filcris' track-bed, I did not want to read that there might be a distortion vulnerability. Albeit, it is something I thought could be a risk. However, although I only laid my 'Filcris' sections this year, a curved section was exposed to 30 degrees centigrade in the heat-trap of my South facing patio and there has been no distortion. I continue to be very pleased with it. I used computer cut grey 'Eco Board' curves with brown flexible plastic edging - screwed to the grey board to hold it rigid.
Notwithstanding its being ok so far, it will need to be exposed to sub-zero temperatures for complete evaluation. However, I imagine that the plastic will be less likely to distort or warp at lower temperatures - it should be more rigid in Winter.
Regards - Joe

[Peaky 556]

The majority of my boards are the grey "Eco board" which is much more rigid than the brown (very flexible) stuff which Filcris sell in strips for garden railway use.

I re-examined the "brown" boards which where screwed to the side "runners" during hot weather and find that the board is now like a "roller-coaster"!

I shall now dispense with the "runners" and screw the board to 10 ft lengths of 4ins x 2ins tanalised timber which will (I hope) prevent it from twisting.

John.

John
Could you just clarify some matters in your post above please, just so we are clear?  I and others need to understand the problem to try and deal with it should we choose these materials.
1. You have screwed brown boards to the "side runners"?  Don't understand - any pictures please?  Is a "side runner" the same as shown on Joe Watt's layout, ie the edge stiffener?  If so, what have you made side runners from if not brown flexible strips?
2. Not clear if you inspected them during hot weather and found them distorted or you screwed them on in hot weather and they were distorted on later inspection.
3. Which boards are now "like a roller-coaster"?  The grey boards, the side runners or the brown boards?
4. Do you have a contract with Filcris to beta-test their products!?  Or is it just bad luck so far...

Regards,
Dubious of Derbyshire

[454]

Oh Dubious of Derbyshire,

Check out the full details at the Filcris website, all is explained.

I think the fact I have not had any problems of any significance might be due to the break in continuity over the garden path where I have an aluminium girder bridge. Just check out my youtubes, you will see the layout in operation, Brit in action & several other battery RC locos. One video incidently taken on what I believe to be the hottest day in Derby in 2013.

The Black recycled plastic board is mounted on a brown ladder frame bent to shape, with John's famous banana legs that have never deformed from straight when forced into terra firma on my patch . Its all down to lengths, loadings & directions of strains. Relative expansions etc.

The curious thing about all this debate is that the Americans with their experiences of temperature extremes seem to cope with the equivalent materials over the big pond. This is what gave me the confidence to venture down this plastic recycled route.

So much so that my boundary fencing panels, posts & gravel boards are now all plastic.  Oh, Forgot to mention  so is my garden shed. If Playmobil did 12 feet rad curves sadly that would be my material of choice for track as the expansion would probable match precisely being plastic of course.

Dave
454

[John Candy]

Tim,

The "roller coaster" was brown plastic plank (very flexible) for the trackbed, with "runners" of the same material attached to form an inverted "U" (the runners were attached beneath the edges of the plank, rather than to the outer edge, as in Joe's example).
The parts were screwed together on a very hot day in mid-July and were straight and level, until next morning when it was cooler!

I separated the parts this morning before seeing your post, so too late to take a photo.

The grey "Ecoboard" (from which my curved sections were cut) have been outside all Summer and were used as templates for marking out the ground.
They have been left suspended by their ends, on pillars, without any ill-effects. I would add that, unlike Joe's boards, I have not yet attached any "runners" to them. The runners are of the brown flexible plastic and I would worry that the two types of plastic may have very different coefficients of expansion but, having said that, Joe's boards appear to have survived the heat.

No, (unfortunately) not a beta tester for Filcris, so boards have to date cost almost 2,000 GBP, so I jolly well hope they do not prove problematic (I went to collect another large batch of the grey Ecoboards today).

Regards,
John.

[Peaky 556]

OK John, I'm going to shelve the Filcris option for my twin tracks and instead head down the reinforced concrete route now. 
Good luck to all those on a plastic 'permanent way'!
Tim 

[AllWight]

Why do you not use the concrete trunking that the full size railways use for all their cabling. Even the lids are strong and durable. If yo put the U shape profile trunking in upside down it gives you some height as well as drainage. Most preserved railways usually have an abundance of these items. Ask them if you can buy some, you may even get a bargain when you tell them what you want it for.

Mark

[MikeWilliams]

John,

Two years have passed and I'd be interested to hear how your Filcris boards have stood up to the weather?

Mike

[joewatt]

First, a cheaper source of 'Eco Board' could be at: http://www.rjjoinery.com/

I've had no problems where I've used 'eco board'. Most of my track is at ground level or just above, so I've not used recycled plastic posts. The 'eco board' sheet does bow when exposed to direct sun. However, it returns to its original shape on cooling. Where I've laid board over ground, the lower side is kept cool by the contact with the ground and I covered the top surface with grit as ballast, which protects it from uneven heating by the Sun. However, I have a strip of 'eco board' as a deck on across a GRS bridge; it has no protection from direct sun and does not distort.

[John Candy]

Have had no problems with the grey/black "Ecoboard" but it does need to be on a rigid base to prevent bowing (2inch thick timber bearers at regular spacing).
Must be stored flat or will bow (but easily restored by placing on flat surfaces).
Has a high coefficient of expansion (far higher than the rail) so gaps need to be allowed according to ambient temperature during construction.

John.

[AshleyW]

the new g3 railway on you tube , uses a type of mdf board that is guaranteed for 60 years- samples in the show room are inside a fishtank. but it's expensive £100 for 8x4 sheet

[jamiepage]

AshleyW, could I ask what the MDF board is called please, so I could track some down?
Thank you
Jamie

[AshleyW]

Medite tricoya  extreme durable MDF  www.meditetricoya.com