Future Availability of Member-produced Parts

[Nick]

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Mike raises a very good point. Since the start of this project I have accumulated enough spare parts to make a big difference for anyone wanting to make a Precedent, or one of several other prototypes since the LNWR did share out a lot of its components. And if I haven't got it, I have the solid model file so more parts can be made quite readily. The question of what to do with them, now and in the future, even after I have been relocated to the great loco works in the sky, has entered my thoughts but hasn't yet got very far in.

I've no interest in becoming a trader or of making a profit out of this, but it would be good to know that something is of use to somebody. The G3S does have a shop which at present is a fairly low-key operation, but it might be a basis for something. And boost what the Society offers its members. Other suggestions also welcome!

On a related subject, I've become aware that the new technologies I've been using are often not very cost-effective for one-off projects because of the economies of scale, minimum order charges, and so on. That probably won't change in the future because laser cutting, 3D printing hard plastics and metals, and casting, are not going to be things most of us can do in our domestic workshops. Companies in that field are geared up for large orders from industrial clients and won't ever make a living out of the likes of us.

This project is turning out more expensive than I expected, but it's a hobby, so who's counting? But it does make me wonder if I wouldn't be better off in my next project (whatever that is) building a small batch rather than a singleton? Turning myself into an entrepreneur after all?

Nick

[MikeWilliams]

Nick,

Apologies in advance for hi-jacking your thread but ... in my opinion the availability of trade products has been a major driver in the expansion of Gauge 3 over the last couple of decades.  It is easy to assume that the trend will continue, but will it?

GRS are probably still the largest manufacturer in Gauge 3, but have discontinued a whole range of product and are concentrating on retailing models from other sources.  They appear to no longer have patterns for some of their kits.

Brandbright used to be a major manufacturer but they disappeared completely.

Walsall continue to add to their range and are a great resource for engineering, but Les and Roger are both getting older and I see nobody else getting involved.  Anybody taking over their product ranges would be likely to concentrate on their core business which is Gauge 1.

Slaters are expanding their range only very slowly, David is no youngster and finding a buyer for that business would be hard.  But where would we be without Slaters wheels?

Kingscale still seem to be adding occasional new large models, but have only done one small engine and one carriage, with no sign that they will be doing more of either.

Williams Models is a one man band and probably reached a plateau because if I am ever to finish my own garden railway I need to reduce time spent on supplying kits and parts.

Andy Mould has a great range of body kits but he has an onerous day job and is also primarily Gauge 1.

There are specialists like Apple Tree Railways who do a great job in a narrow field, but many others no longer supply Gauge 3: Swift Sixteen, Tim Casserley and a couple of laser cut wood people.

In summary, should the Gauge 3 Society consider a plan to safeguard the future of our scale in much the same way that our founding members did back in 1990?  Or is it no longer a committee matter and the trade should be left to sort itself out?

Finally, hi-jacking this thread is not the best place to discuss this, but where is the best place?

Mike

[Nick]

Mike,

No problem with hijacking the thread. There is no good place but this is as good as any. Unfortunately not many of the G3S committee come here, which is unfortunate because what you raise is (or should be) a serious concern.

Nick

[IanT]

I don't know if they come here (or not) but they are all on the Messaging Service Mike...

Regards,


IanT

[John Candy]

I'll add my tuppence worth to the matter of production/marketing of items produced from patterns prepared by members.

Gavin Bashford (Marston Models) has taken on my OpenSCAD/STL files for LNER(Gresley) and GCR corridor stock, with a view to offering some (if not all) as kits.

I am hoping someone may be willing to take on production of my series of GWR milk vans (Siphons), the GWR Monster and the Southern bogie luggage van.

I also have printed two types of GCR fish van and two types of LNWR brake vans.

I am also mulling over whether to proceed with LMS 10000 (the first British mainline diesel-electric loco.).

The files for printing these (and more) will be backed-up so they are preserved for posterity!

I also have a mountain of silicon-rubber moulds (and patterns from which they were produced) to produce wagons, buildings, etc., which will likely end up in a skip when I am "gone"!

John.

[Chris_P]

Would a simple start be to create a new thread and a records officer who could collate a list of moulds and parts held by members?

I suspect there will always be issues of home builders not keeping full records of things they have or ensuring relevant moulds and masters are logically stored making it hard for anybody dealing with their estate to manage disposal.  A society record might encourage members to consider logical labelling and storage in the hope that those dealing with their estate would know what to do with it and not just consign it to a skip.

[keith Bristol]

This raises a very pertinent problem.. I did raise with GRS a few years ago the  preservation of the parts. The conversation wasnt concluded but the thought was positive and recognised the issues

[hornbeam]

I had quite a chat with Matt at GRS. They have got back a fair few masters and plans are afoot to re-introduce the Terrier, Pannier (with improvements to its shape) and various wagons starting with the GWR toad. They have already had a new supplier delivering their building kits as well. They face an issue in that the company that does all their plastic parts ( cut sheet, vac formed parts, roofs etc) is getting older and may give up the work soon.

Brandbright was sold again this year and has taken a while to get up and running and suspect they will never do the Gauge 3 stuff again.

Most suppliers find gauge 3 sales are very low compared to 16mm scale so don't tend to think it's worth while sadly.

[cabbage]

Well now that I have one eye that functions... I print my own locos (that are electric) and parts for my layout and railway. Having been brought up poor I have always tended to make things myself or charge only for materials. The LMS Lego library of OpenScad files is still there should anybody want a copy. Yes I do buy some parts -those I cannot make.

Regards

Ralph

[753]

Mention has been made to the lack of trade support for parts to G3, as we are a minority group there is no profit in small parts.
Fear not the answer is simple, we supply ourselves. There are many members who build their own engines and stock that have the wherewithal to make small parts be it in metal, 3D printed or make CAD drawings for members to get part made them self's. I have had help from several members who have equipment and or skills that I do not poses, and I in turn have reciprocated where I can, so help between members already exists but not nessacery to the wider membership.
Maybe our editor could write a note in the Newsletter advising the membership that if they get stuck for a part there is help available. But before that it maybe wise to have a straw poll to determine how many members are prepared to help out their fellows.
Helping out one another aids the society to be stronger and a sense of fellowship.
On that note may I take the opportunity to wish all members a happy Christmas and a productive modelling new year.

Mike.

[John Branch]

I have followed this thread with interest, and, given that someone out there has (possibly) made a part in the past that is relevant to something I am doing, I would be delighted if I could ask that someone for help.  Similarly, I would be totally willing to let someone have access to my designs, which have been realised by laser cutters, mostly MEL, but some others as well.

My problem is that, with few exceptions, all my projects have been one-offs.  This means that when I receive a batch of parts most will need some fettling, or other adjustment to enable them to be joined satisfactorily, or to enable accurate alignment.  The models I build are, effectively, "Beta" standard, and the drawings often need some small revisions before coming up to the standard we would expect from a kit.  Bearing in mind that it costs the same to produce a fully developed part as it does for a less useful one, the only saving to the constructor is in the preparation of the drawing.  For this reason, I would be reluctant to suggest a fellow builder use my drawings without it being explicitly understood that, whilst they  might be a good starting point, there is the distinct possibility of some rework being needed.
John

[John Candy]

Although I have been watching this thread, I have not previously commented on the suggestions.

Having been sent a copy of the proposal which has been circulated by email to a few G3S members, I would make my position clear.

Personally, I think it is a good idea but I currently have no spare time to allocate (not only my own numerous G3 projects but also assisting others with their own projects, as well as being a Trustee of a family trust which, for more than three years, has been consuming large chunks of time on a daily basis, dealing with agents and solicitors).

However, as members of this forum will be aware, I have already made available a large number of OpenSCAD / STL files for carriages and other items which can be downloaded from my other G3 site which is www.gauge3.info (I have also made some files available to download through the medium of articles in "Garden Rail").

I have more OpenSCAD / STL files available for several more items of rolling stock and these may eventually be made available but only if there is evidence that use is being made of those already provided. It takes time to prepare the material (particularly sets of instructions) for uploading and time is in short supply.

While I have reserved the copyright/intellectual property in relation to uploaded material, I have licensed Marston Models to produce LNER carriages from some of those files, in return for  donation of a percentage of sale price to Addenbrooke's Charitable Trust (the Cambridge University research hospital).

If files / other material are placed in trust with the G3 Society, there will need to be safeguards in relation to the preservation of reserved rights of the owners of that material, to prevent "commercial" (for profit) use being made without the licence/consent of the originator/ owner.

So, in summary, I support the idea but am unable to become involved in administering the scheme but (subject to terms and conditions) would be willing to contribute material.

Regards,
John.

[cabbage]

The solution is very simple. It is called GNU GPL 2.0

This is the mantra under which I publish my designs and my programs.

For those of us who decry the legalistic rubbish it means this.

"This is my thing, I give it to the world to use. But always remember that it is mine".

Neither Sagen or Salk charged a dollar for their vaccines since the main users of it would be children. Similarly the only users of G3 designs are going to be G3 people.

If the Society and the number of G3 people is to grow then a fundamental shift in thinking is going to have to be made.

There are now eight "Wonder Engine" prints running around the tracks. Each teenage owner builder spent less than  £20 on it.

This is the 21st century, such fantasies as "intellectual copyright" are redundant.

Regards

Ralph

[IanT]

I've either missed it or my memory is on the blink (again)

What's a "Wonder Engine" Ralph?


IanT

[cabbage]

The "Wonder Engine" is the sad nickname of the LMS18010. I wrote an article on it for The Newsletter.

Regards

Ralph