Let's see if we can't get a few more involved!

[hornbeam]

Prob not the place to post this sorry, but I cant message Richard- or you i'm afraid the error code 'Many apologies, but you can't view just any profile' is there something im doing wrong?

Simon.

[John Candy]

Hello Simon,

You should be able to send a message by selecting the "My Messages" tab and composing your message.

If this is not working for you, then please email me webmaster@gauge3.org.uk and I will sort out the problem.

Regards,
John.

[Traininvain]

You're clicking on the name of the person posting the message rather than the message name

[cabbage]

Well the first one is out of the starting blocks...

I have hunted around my bits box and the net and started work.

I have a "working drawing" about 45% complete. This is not a super scale model, but rather one that will be easy to build -dimensions are to the nearest millimetre. The "beer mat" accounts show that I have "spent" £52.66p of my dosh at current prices and I think that I am on target for a set of bogies for £60(?)

lms 10,800 costings

9 feet bogie plates g3 £5.00
4mm ball races technobots £9.52         
ESC eBay £14.00      
motors size e technobots £11.92   
RSA37 wheels brandbright £26.22   
gears muffet £(?)
SLA technobots £9.31    

I will know more about the cost of the bodywork when I visit B&Q on Wednesday morning...  

regards

ralph                  

[AllWight]

Hi Hornbeam

To re-gauge Thomas/Percy you need to take a pattern of the original axle and increase the length by 18.5mm. Drill and tap the end of the axle with a 6BA tap and mill a D shape into each end of the axle (90 degrees opposing) and take off 20thou so the wheels can lock into position for the correct quartering. Additionall you will need new brass top hat bearings for each wheel to stop the body of the engine sliding to the extreme left or right from the centre line.

To re-gauge the diesels LGB power bogiesl I used 6mm steel rod cut to length with a hacksaw and the wheels where loctited on to the correct gauge. Again to prevent it sliding to the extrem left or right some collars were installed. A piece of steel tube with a 6.5mm internal diameter of which 8 were cut to the required length. Admittedly all the axles and collars were spun up on the lathe in order to de burr each end of each piece. But thats how it was done hope that answers your question.

By the way some suppliers are selling the Thomas/Percy at around the £70.00 mark and if you wish to get hold of an LGB motor block or old second hand donor loco for parts then it is worth checking out the LGB webpages and their forums. Sometimes a reasonably priced item will appear.

Mark

[MikeWilliams]

Mark,

Milling would seem to rule this out completely in the spirit of John's competition, unless a source of these can be found ready made.

If I understand the rules correctly, maybe Richard.T's Ruston is nearest to the spirit of the competition?  And isn't another small engine being developed in the North East - (T'other John?)

Mike

[John Candy]

I have now drafted the competition rules and these can be downloaded and printed from

http://gauge3.org.uk/G3_Made_Simple_Competition_Entry.pdf

The "tear-off" form will need to be submitted with each entry (it grants permission to the Gauge 3 Society to publish and make use of the material submitted).

My thanks to Ralph for his valuable input in preparing the specifications.

John.

[cabbage]

Ok -so how many others have entered the fray?

My drawing is about 85% done and I have started on the instruction manual -I have even cut some metal!!! The hardest job today was deciding how to make the door louvres -I need 36 sets of 5 slots each. The method I have chosen is simple -but boring...

For those not familiar with the loco:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_10800

I have only had a set of "vanity plates" made for one of my locos -but for this I think I will order a set.
The working name of the loco is in line with my humour...

regards

ralph

[cabbage]

John....

OMG(!) I have never known anyone like you....

Why have you included this in the Rules?

QUOTE:
As a condition of entry to the competition, all entrants agree to assign to the Committee and Members of The Gauge 3 Society (and their successors in title) copyright and other intellectual property rights in the material submitted and agree that the material may be used in any way that the Society deems fit (an acknowledgement of the authorship of the material will be given in conjunction with any publication).
UNQUOTE:

I did request that you make the rules more a fun thing to do and read less like an insurance claims form. I would urge you to get rid of it and re-write the entire of the second page. This legalistic phraseology is meaningless as PLAIN ENGLISH is all that is required. 

Try again....

regards

ralph

[cabbage]

Ok -a fresh look in the morning and that 69 word sentence(?) is still as unusable...

try this:

"One of the conditions of entry is the fact that the Gauge '3' Society will be able to use the designs and information that you enter. They will edit and alter it to fit requirements. The design and text remain yours and a credit to that fact will be used in all articles."

53 Words all in PLAIN ENGLISH. And while we are here the following 61 words "sentence":

QUOTE:
I submit the accompanying project as identified by the description above and, in accordance with the rules of entry for this competition, assign to the Committee and Members of the Gauge 3 Society (and their successors in title) all rights to use the material submitted herewith in such manner as they think fit for the promotion of gauge 3 railway modelling.
UNQUOTE:

Having submitted the above to a Reading Age test -I find that the required reading age is 135... Try to write for normal people who will read it -this is not some legal submission whose sole purpose is to exist in files... I now understand  why all the documentation used by my former company was in German -as there is no such thing as "Legal German".

regards

ralph

[John Candy]

Good Morning Ralph!

I read the first of your two messages at 2.00 am ..... I had spent the previous two hours disassembling the the chassis of the GRS 4F, having at midnight run the first powered test only to find that the motor/gearbox unit is defective....the gears have not been cut correctly and the teeth "jump" at a certain point in the rotation.
Having substituted the unit from the "Dean Goods" kit, I then went to bed.

First priority this morning was to phone GRS for a replacement.
Apparently the gear sets are cut by a chap referred to as "Peter" who does it on a 1940's lathe and "by eye" rather than CNC with the consequence that the result is not as consistent or accurate as GRS would like but the work is done to a price.
A point arising from my conversation with GRS and which may be of interest to any entrants in this competition intending to make use of Buehler and Mabuchi motors is that GRS are currently unable to obtain any from their US supplier (apparently even the big "USA Trains" company which uses them is unable to obtain supplies).

Returning to the "small print".
I understand your reasoning but as a Committee member, I have a duty to the Membership at large to take reasonable steps to protect their interests.
While you and I may be generous of spirit, there may be those less generous who, at a later date, may wish to reclaim rights over their material or even start an action for breach of copyright/intellectual property theft.
As a compromise between a full blown Deed of Assignment and seeking no protection, I opted for the simple Declaration.
Part of the problem lies with the fact that the Society is currently unincorporated and "title to property" can only be held by individuals (i.e. the Members and Committee in particular). The reference to "successors in title" is to cover the eventuality that the Society elects to incorporate in which case title would pass to the company.

I did try to make the overall competition rules as "friendly" as possible but in the main it is a statement of parameters and "facts are facts".

I would welcome comments from others on whether or not they consider the "conditions of entry" to be reasonable : I am not unwilling to consider alterations but would like additional input.

Regards,
John.

[cabbage]

Then the answer is simple. State that any and all information is deemed to lie in the "Public Domain" in accordance with "The GNU General Public Licence ver 2.0". This will enable anyone to copy and build models from the designs, print build instructions and modifications to their hearts content. This also means that any builder or designer has the use of any technique or design for later use.

There have been cases where "intellectual copyright" has fouled up royally...

regards

ralph

[John Candy]

Ralph,

It boils down as to "intent" : My intention is that the designs become Society property and spearhead a "G3 Made Simple" campaign (now and in the future).
These designs may even become a component of a separate domain www.g3madesimple.org.uk

If made subject to a public licence, that would negate the "value" to the Society.

Are the G1MRA and Gauge0 "project" locos. "public" property or do they retain the copyright (I think the latter)?

Even if the G3 Made Simple designs were to become "public" property, the Society would still need a form of "Release" from the designers to avoid subsequent "ownership" claims.

Regards,
John.

[cabbage]

Having consulted with the Senior Partner of the third largest Legal Partnership in Derby...

1: Use of the GNU General Public Licence ver 2.0 will allow you to do what you wish with no further legal requirements, release forms etc -provided that you state its application in this context. This applies now especially as the G3S is an unincorporated associated and can have no intellectual property rights.

2: The spirit of the GNU GPL2.0 allows the designer to say "This is my gift to the world" as it negates any concept of "copyright" and instead introduces the concept of "copyleft".

End of Legal section.

Here I express my personal opinions. The idea of a competition is a very good one. The token prize or donation for efforts is also a good one. The publication of all the designs (winner and losers) for the reading of the general public to promote G3 is a good one. As this will show the skill, dedication and enthusiasm of the designers and builders to their models. I embrace the concept of the GNU GPL2.0 as I publish all my designs to the web for all to see and use. I don't charge a penny for any of them and I give my time freely in pursuit of it. I would say that you remove the legalistic rubbish from this and get back to the business of having a fun competition.

I will say to my wife when she crashes her laptop -"You are not a computer Geek" -to which she will reply "You have no Voice in Court"...

regards

ralph

[John Candy]

Ralph,

The primary issue here is whether or not the Society wishes to retain copyright as is the case, for example, with G1MRA's "Project" and "Dee"?
If so, then the GNU licence is not the appropriate course.... on this aspect I will seek the views of the other Committee members.
Remember, this competition was a "spur of the moment" decision and such aspects have not been considered in detail.

On the question of "title", I have already covered the point that, being currently unincorporated, title would have to be held by an individual Committee member or members but, since the competition does not close until next year, the Committee anticipates that incorporation may by then have been effected.

Cannot spare any more time on this discussion over the next few days since I am trying to get the 4F kit completed in time for Ampthill on Saturday......and there are still a few snags to sort out as well as final painting.

Regards,
John.

P.S. It is normal that the organiser of a competition sets the rules : The competitors abide by those rules.
I am willing to listen but at the end of the day I will have the final say.