Live Steam 0-4-4 Tank Project

[John Candy]

I am pleased to be able to confirm that Peter is still actively building G3 models and he hopes to have the 0-4-4T completed around the end of the year.

He has several other G3 and G1 models "on the go" so it has taken longer than anticipated to finish the 0-4-4T project.

John.

[Steve Cook]

Thats great news
Thanks for asking John, I look forward to seeing the results of Peter K's endeavours.
Steve

[John Candy]

It is now several years since the penultimate chapter (#16) was published and contact with "Ginger" has been lost.
The final chapter was to have covered "regulator, fuel arrangements (gas or meths) and some of the fiddly bits".
It is now most unlikely that "Ginger" will complete the series.
Nevertheless, I have reinstated the link to the project and it can be found (commencing week #1) at https://gauge3.info/public_html/0-4-4_tank/week_1.html

It would be useful if someone would "finish off" the series by writing the final chapter.

John.

P.S. Note that the original material includes links to an enquiry form .... this form no longer functions since it was set up on a previous server and will be removed when I revise the pages,

[753]

John

Looking through the live steam project pages, it is an encouraging help to anyone thinking of building their first G3 loco.
Do you think it would also be useful to encourage new members to build an electric loco, a much simpler task without the need for machine tools?
Using laser cutting, 3D printing and simple hand tools one could build a tank engine at a lower cost than a commercial version.
Given there are several members who build their own engines, we as a group could offer help with CAD drawing for laser cutting, the same for 3D printing, and advise.

I can think of one new member who wants to build a GWR Pannier tank.

Mike

[Doddy]

John

Looking through the live steam project pages, it is an encouraging help to anyone thinking of building their first G3 loco.
Do you think it would also be useful to encourage new members to build an electric loco, a much simpler task without the need for machine tools?
Using laser cutting, 3D printing and simple hand tools one could build a tank engine at a lower cost than a commercial version.
Given there are several members who build their own engines, we as a group could offer help with CAD drawing for laser cutting, the same for 3D printing, and advise.

I can think of one new member who wants to build a GWR Pannier tank.

Mike

"I can think of one new member who wants to build a GWR Pannier tank."

I can think of an older member as well!

This is a great idea worthy of support.

[John Candy]

I can think of one new member who wants to build a GWR Pannier tank.

Mike, would that be the same member who (when I had finished my pair of 57XX/8750 class) commented, "You can't have too many Panniers!"?

An auto-fitted Pannier is missing from my GWR collection.
An older suitable class would be the 2021 (GRS already supply an etched brass kit) while more modern examples would be the 54XX and 64XX (Collett) classes.

Regards,
John.

[richardgreen]

Evening all , talk of a mass pannier build sounds very encouraging as I'm assuming Mike was referring to me as the newbie around here wanting to build a Gauge 3 Pannier. Earlier types I guess would be good , let's face it there were plenty of different classes to choose from pre 1929 before the 57xx arrived.

Rich.

[MikeWilliams]

I wouldn't be able to support such a project due to lack of time at present, but its a great idea and with the calibre of names already mentioned on here is pretty certain to be completed.  Go for it!

Mike

[Doddy]

Not an extensive list, but plenty of highlights for various Pannier Tank operations.

[Nick]

I think it's a great idea and should encourage people to join the G3 fraternity, particularly those moving up from the smaller scales. At Fawley yesterday I spoke to three people who each liked the look of G3 but were put off by the lack of kits and components, relative to what is available in smaller scales. Not everyone wants or is able to make everything for themselves. The commercial situation isn't going to change overnight, so anything that encourages the "average" modeller to have a go in G3 is to be welcomed.

If this is going to happen, it needs someone to take it on, build a loco and write a blow by blow account like the original series. Or, possibly better, a group of people who can each build one and exchange ideas as they go. Before you ask, that won't be me for several reasons, most obviously because I have too much on my plate already. But, on a positive note, I am willing to undertake the CAD modelling necessary so that parts can be laser cut and 3D printed. That is if this becomes a serious project rather than a discussion, and if someone has a decent set of drawings of the prototype they can lend. I haven't time to go hunting in the NRM Library. The CAD files could then be available for any G3 member to access - strictly for non-commercial purposes, of course.

Speaking of laser cutting, etc, I am aware of the cost savings of having multiple parts rather than a single set of parts made. That might make it more attractive for a group than an individual, but doesn't rule out an individual build to get the project going.

Nick

[John Candy]

Not wishing to put the kibosh on the idea but I would echo the words of caution from Mike Williams in relation to his experience with "Venture".

I have participated in two construction projects, both intended to promote G3 to a new audience.

The first was to produce a low cost "starter" loco to generate more interest in G3 (and consequent membership for the G3S).

That was the "Plantagenet" project and was a technical success (fortunately, I partnered with two competent and reliable members in Ian Turner and Mike Williams) but the result did not achieve its intended purpose on the marketing/promotional front.

The second was the ill-fated "Monkton Priors" project (to produce an exhibition layout for the G3S). Plenty of flag-waving and initial support but, when it came down to "rolling-up sleeves", most of the support evaporated as quickly as early morning mist and I was left holding the baby and significantly out-of-pocket!

Mike W had a similar experience with the "Venture" project to produce a live steam LNWR "Cauliflower".
Plenty of initial support which soon evaporated, leaving Mike holding the baby (and an expensive stock of components). It has taken him more than 10 years, struggling with minimal support, to reach the current position, where a few locos have been completed.

So, before "jumping in", do heed these warnings; the portents are not good.
For me it is a case of, "once bitten, twice shy".

Regards,
John.

[Nick]

John,

Your warnings are well received and your experience is valuable. This project has significant differences in that it isn't a kit or a RTR loco, but something that a modeller of reasonable skills and without a workshop full of machine tools would be able to build. It would comprise (a) existing commercial parts where they exist, e.g. Slater's wheels and powertrain (b) parts to be made from supplied CAD files by laser cutting, 3D printing, etching, etc, organised and paid for by the builder (we can advise on suppliers who make it easy to order online), and (c) parts that the builder can make using hand tools and traditional methods.

Nobody has to spend any money upfront except the builder. I've offered my time free because I want to see G3 grow, with the caveats previously mentioned, particularly an assurance that this project really will happen. Which leads to the final element: the detailed account posted online by a builder to serve as inspiration and instructions for others.

Many years ago I tutored an OU course on Engineering Design and Innovation, in which students considered case studies of projects that succeeded and those that didn't (e.g. the APT. Yes, it was that long ago). One of the most important distinguishing features between them was the existence of a "product champion" who took the initiative and drove the project forward. That is what we will need here.

Nick

[MikeWilliams]

Nick wrote: "I've offered my time free because I want to see G3 grow".  For a relatively new convert to G3 (I think?) that is absolutely admirable.  As the engine is fairly simple and with people like you and Mike on board, I am confident that it will be completed.  How many people actually build one is another matter and only time will tell.

As for the projects quite reasonably mentioned by John.  Plantagenet is still live, but being made as I write in batches with outside help and I think you say say it has been a success.  Venture is very severely delayed but will be finished and satisfy those involved, which was part of the plan, though its legacy hasn't been fulfilled yet.  Monkton Priors was just such a shame.

Mike