Long Modules & Small Boots!

[IanT]

So the problem was that I had agreed to build some 'Twin Track' modules as a proof of concept – and as the first step towards what one day might be part of a demonstration track.

I could have decided to build some simple straight track modules but having a masochistic tendency, I decided it would be good to build a 'crossing'. I re-installed my copy of 'Templot' and after much bad language actually remembered (e.g. completely relearned) how to use it. A number of crossings were designed – all with a view to fitting it within either 2 x 900mm or 3 x 900mm modules. They mostly looked pretty good – with just one small problem. Where was I going to place the 'joins'?

Try as I might, I could not come up with a good 'joint' solution, although I could easily do it if I used 2 x 1350mm modules (e.g. total 2700mm = 3 x 900mm units). With 1350mm the join would be bang in the middle, very do'able.

The problem was that my 4-door saloon boot ('trunk' to my US friends) will not swallow anything 1350mm (about 4' 5") long. It will just about handle 900mm but even 1000mm is too much.

I'd been explaining this problem to Mike W (probably working up my excuses for not having done anything thus far). He didn't have a solution but suggested that I talk to one of our 'gurus' (I'll save his blushes) to see if he could suggest a solution to the 'joint' problem.

No sooner had I put the phone down, than it occurred to me that I might be trying to solve the wrong problem. I liked the idea of two 1350mm modules, the real problem was getting them in the car. And no – I haven't decided to sell the Alfa either!

I cannot get then IN the car – but perhaps I can get them ON the car.

http://www.motorsavers.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=handirack&category_id=0&product_id=170

I've just ordered one of these – and hope that this will solve my problem for the crossing. Everything else will be kept to 900mm and inside the car.

I'll post some info about the 'crossing' modules on another thread if that's of interest.   

Regards,


IanT

[Andy B]

Hi Ian,

Handiracks are quite popular amongst white-water kayakers who fly somewhere with boats and then use a car rental. The racks will easily take 2 kayaks at 17-20 Kg each, so no problem weight-wise for 2 (or even more) modules.
You might want to consider putting a bridging strip across the underside of your modules at the rack positions so as to spread the weight - thin timber edges would pull into the rack and potentially get a bit close to your roof when strapped down.

General advice (from their bitter experiences!) is to ensure your car roof is clean and check for any bits of grit, etc on the handiracks before fitting. Some people also recommend an extra layer of cheap camping mat (but the heavier duty bubble-wrap should be just as good) to reduce the fretting action on the car paintwork - otherwise you might be needing to get the T-Cut out to polish out the scratches!

Andy

[IanT]

That sounds like very good advice Andy, especially about building in some support underneath the modules. Have to see how they fit on my roof and what the dimensions look like.

They will not be used very often - but Bella would certainly not be very pleased if I scratched her roof.

Thank You

Ian T

[MikeWilliams]

Ian,

If i were you, I'd make the bases from BS certified marine ply and waterproof glue, especially if you will be carrying it on the roof.  The additional cost is small and whatever happens you know you're safe.

In fact, if the Society's modular track comes into being, I can see it being used outside on occasions, so maybe the whole thing should be marine ply.  Water resistant ply is not the same thing at all.

Mike

[IanT]

It's an interesting point Mike.

My original intent was to make them "shower proof" (not sure how I would define this - but something not too bothered if it rained a little bit I guess). I have always intended to use mine outside (and for live steam) but to be 'portable' enough that they can be got out/put away for the day. This is clearly a very different requirement to anything that will be left outside permanently. Plus I intend to 'seal' the modules (with paint or varnish) inside and out anyway - as much to help damp-proof them for storage as for weather resistance.

Of course being lashed to the roof of my car in the pouring rain might well be a tougher test than a sprinkling of rain in the back garden. Covers could be designed if required I guess. The materials spec. needed seems to be somewhere between that used for an indoor set-up and that for a garden layout.

Anyone got any practical experience in something similar?

Regards,

Ian T

[Ted Sadler]

Watch out for the weight - marine ply on wooden frames is going to get awfully heavy to lift on and off a roof rack. Maybe use aluminium angle supports?

Ted

[MikeWilliams]

Ian,

Can't offer any experience of portable tracks intended to be left in the rain occasionally.  In the 1970s I built a permanent 7mm track in the garden on 3/4 marine ply, edged with 3in x .5in softwood pinned on, making an inverted U.  Wooden sleepers were pinned down and ballast fixed with a sort of mastic which came in a 50 gallion drum and also sealed the vertical joint.  After ten years and more the ply was fine, but my inadequate supports meant it had warped slightly.

Other experience relates to restoring carriages.  A retired carpenter re-panelled an LMS bogie coach with (non-marine) ply, and also made new beading from the same stuff.  It was sealed and painted but after two years had started to de-laminate and had to be completely re-done.  Admitedly it was oputside 24 x 7, but it had been sealed and painted and was a vertical surface from which water would run off.

My test piece of 3/8in marine ply for carriage panels has been in the garden for almost ten years and shows no sign of failure.

I note Ted's concern about weight and must concede that weight reduction is not one of my strong points.  My dad served an apprenticeship in the construction division of the Gas Board and anything he made at home we dubbed "a proper gasworks job", meaning it was somewhat over-engineered!  I tended to copy him.  I guess it wouldn't be hard to calculate the all-up weight if made from 6mm ply - I don't see the need for alloy or any other metal angles?

Mike

[IanT]

Well, I had intended to use WBP (Water & Boil Proof) exterior ply originally. Apart from cost (I would guess) what's the difference between WBP and Marine - anyone know??

I've not decided on thickness yet - and although I have an inclination to build on 'brick outhouse' specs generally, weight is clearly a factor here.

Cost is also an issue (well at least a mental one - I will admit to being more than a wee bit stingy). Modules can be built gradually over time (another thing that attracted me to the idea) so that does help spread the cost -which I guess will also make them feel much less expensive! 

Still waiting for my 'inflatables' to arrive - but will have to pop into Wickes (or wherever) and see what's available real soon!

Ian T

[cabbage]

"Marine Ply" as used by my late father to build "sculls" and "rowing eights" used a Resorcinol based glue and the layers of grain were at 60 degrees to improve flexibility when bending. We are talking the 70's and 80's here and I still see some of the mahogany and teak veneered "eights" that he built going up and down the Derwent. The Glass Fibre hulled sculls and eights used by the neighbouring club -don't seem to have lasted...

"Water and Boil Proof" ply does not have water proof glue -but is listed as suitable for sheds(?)

I would personally opt for Marine ply rather than a WBP grade and a good coat of Cuprinol inside and out. The Summer House has survived 5 years outside and is currently fast disappearing under the fast falling snow. It builds light and strong. The Austin Westminster that was the family taxi during this time could take one "eight" on the roof and pull a trailer with two "eights" behind it.

regards

ralph

[MikeWilliams]

Thanks Ralph for reminding me about Cuprinol - I agree and used that on my 7mm line.  Big advantage is you can paint over it - assuming you want to.

Mike

[IanT]

Well the InterWebby is a wonderful thing and I've just spent 20 minutes looking for Marine Ply.

It soon became obvious that if you live near the sea or on the Broads - it will be easier to find a local source. It also seems that quality and prices do vary quite a bit depending on the exact materials - although to be called 'Marine' it seems it should at least meet BS1088 - and have this (BS1088) stamped on it.

I found this discussion (which I stumbled upon) quite interesting - it's by people thinking of building "ply" canoes. It hadn't occurred to me before but with care - I could be running Gauge 3 engines on my Modules one weekend - and then (turned upside down) be paddling them up the Thames the next...!

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?12990-Marine-Ply-Or-Exterior

Anyway - it does seem that Jewson will supply BS1088 ply (it is listed on their website but no pricing is given) and since I have one locally, I will explore what I can get from them first. Not sure if I want to run to 2-3 times the cost of exterior - but as I'm not interested in the 'cosmetics' of the product a cheaper (but epoxy bonded) ply may be not be so much more (One chap on the canoe site says he got sheets of BS1088 for 20 GBP from Jewson but that may have been a mistake).

Not sure if they will be open tomorrow but I will check with them once they are.

I'll keep you posted

Regards,

Ian T

[MikeWilliams]

Ian,

My local timber suppliers ordered my BS1088 marine ply a few years ago.  I ordered mahogany-faced so in every way it would looik like the original 3/8in solid mahogany originally used on carriages, but without the tendency to split.  Compared with ordinary ply it may well be twice the price, but that doesn't of course mean that your railway will be twice the price.  It may add 10% to the trotal bill.  One problem may be that you will have to order a complete sheet.

Mike

[IanT]

Not having too much luck contacting Jewsons.

So far, I've tried calling three local branches and their SE Regional sales office (this moring) but no one is answering the phone. I don't know if their service is just truely dreadful or if they have been closed all week.

I've sent them an email - but I've had no reply so far.

Ian T

[IanT]

By the way the HandiRack has just arrived this morning - so some progress made.

Looks well made. Have to see - will need it to collect whatever 'Ply' I finally settle on.

Ian

[IanT]

Just "emptied" my camera this afternoon and found a couple of photos I took of the Handirack in use (first outing) last week.

The 8' x 4' sheets were/are a handful and I took the second photo after I had removed the restraining straps. As I've said previously, it was OK for a couple of miles - but I wouldn't want to go any distance (or at speed) with these on the roof.

For the Modules, I'm going to add some "strapping points" to hold things down.

Regards,

Ian T