BR Mk1 coaches in Gauge 3 by Kingscale

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This morning a postal flyer hit my doormat from Kingscale announcing the development of a BR Mk1 SK corridor coach in crimson & cream. A one off batch production. 50 units must be committed to for this to go ahead. The quality will be that which will complement the Britannia. No variations have been announced just an SK.

If anyone is interested then the last ditch date to pledge commitment is 31st May 2013.

Delivery end November 2013.

Dave
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[John Candy]

Too late for my 1930s/40's period but, out of interest, any indication of price?

John.

[MikeWilliams]

So they must have been planning these for some considerable time, but give you, a valued existing customer, just two weeks to decide?

It will be nice to see some suitable length trains running around, but I have considerable sympathy for those who were working on MK1 models anyway.

Mike

[454]

Lets be fair Mike, we do not have 2 weeks to decide. It is just a pledge of commitment under no obligation.

The deal is that we give notice of intent and estimate of quantity under no obligation by end of May 2013 so that Kingscale can assess if the minimum 50 off production run to cover development costs is viable.

The customer then has until early September 2013 to pay a deposit.

The prototype will be approved for manufacture end August 2013

Settle the full amount by 1st November 2013.
Delivery end of November 2013.

The asking price is £1195.00 each unit inclusive of VAT.

Hope this addresses your questions & concerns about pricing & timescales.

Dave
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[MikeWilliams]

Like John, its about 50 years too late for my interest, but if I had a Brit I'd go for four anyway and hope a suitable BSK or similar comes out later  Sounds a very reasonable price to me and I can think of at least two non-Brit owners who would want some.

Mike

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Thankfully I do not model a specific period. My railway is beginning to look like a preservation site.
Am a frequent visitor to Butterley where I do run my trusty Roundhouse 45mm Katie on the garden railway there. It pleases me to see running on the standard gauge there a BR standard 4-6-0 Caprotti pulling some BR Mk1 coaches & then at other times the vintage train passes with a miscellany of Midland red vintage stock inclusive of a horse box hauled by whatever vintage steam loco happens to be serviceable at the time.

Almost anywhere in the nation in the preserved world such rich tapestry of miscellany exists to be admired in its splendour. Even the BR Mk1's today are drifting into antiquity being rescued by the preservationists.

Even my Brit could be perceived as being out of period with the blood & custards as emblazoned on the tender is the "later BR crest". But who cares?

Dave
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Others are working on BR Mk1 coaches at the moment.

1) Was impressed with the efforts of David White with his prototype body in brass duly bent up with window apertures all from his brass etch design. The roof was being evaluated & David showed me a short length of sample bending of the roof contour. The ends were of resin both fitted to the floor & sides. After a chat he said that the weight could come out at about 3 Kgs.

2) Also I believe John Witts is creating a coach as well but I have no details of it.

3) After looking into the Kingscale model and corresponding with Jon at Kingscale I have learned the following.

Their coach will be a replica of the SK version to museum standard & be very accurate e.g. with working doors.
It is expected to weigh in at 8Kgs. The literature states a steel chassis. This I have challenged Kingscale as could be far too heavy for the Brit to haul a rake successfully around the regular GTG tracks.I suggested aluminium to him.
He is going to specify a target weight & get a calculated weight from the CAD drawings. The estimate of 8Kg was extrapolated from Kingscale gauge 1 stock.

I have also asked him about couplings considering it is supposed to be museum quality detail. If anyone has seen the coupling arrangement on the real BR Mk1 stock then it could baffle the practical model operator. It is a drawbar hook with a dangle down knuckle coupler ( or Buckeye ). If anyone needs to visualise then do a "Google Pictures" on it.
The coupler on the coach hides under the corridor connector gangway. Loco to coach could be an issue & needs thought. Whereas coach to coach coupling could be the knuckle arrangement. I do not know what the scale design will be until we see it materialise. Jon at Kingscale is aware that a bit of research is needed. It would be a great help if those who like loads of accurate detail could offer some concept solutions rather than just have a dangly chain.

I have also asked Jon to advise on central coach inner curve overhang on the minimum specified radius that the Brit is rated for so clearances may be checked on our layouts.

4) Hope this thread will be kept up to date with progress from all parties concerning progress with BR Mk1's.

Dave
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[AllWight]

All sounds very fine about the Kingscale Mk1. But do you really need opening doors on a model which you can not enter unless you eat some "shrink me" ala Alice in Wonderland.
The idea of paying for a gimmick is not very appealing. I saw Dave Whites efforts at Timperley and the model looked really good. John Witts is working on a project with another G3S member on producing a ready to run or kit coach but with more variety of Mk1.
My advice is to watch this space. I am sure we will see a sudden influx of Mk1 stock at GTGs soon.

Mark

[MikeWilliams]

Is weight all that important?  Mike May used to say the heavier the better to hold back his live steamers - and his 12-wheelers were very heavy.  Also, I recently looked at Ken Cottle's 42ft carriages with ball races.  They ran so freely that I suspect even my little Manning Wardle could pull a train of ten of them.  Trouble is they roll so freely that you can't keep them still and they really need working brakes.

Mike

[AllWight]

To be that free rolling means only one thing. Very well engineered

Mark

[John Candy]

Being that free running does create problems, especially in the garden.

When I was photographing a wagon fitted with Slaters brass bearings the other day, a gust of wind blew the wagon along the track quite quickly.

If it had been fitted with roller bearings it would have shot off the end of the section of track before I could have caught it!

John.

[Peaky 556]

For maybe marginal interest, 3 kg is about the correct scale mass for a laden Mk1.
Basis of calc is 35000/11500.
I don't really see a problem with excessive mass, it has the benefit of reducing jerky starts and halts, and helps to train the driver in avoiding wheelslip!
;)Tim

[John Candy]

I suppose if your layout is "level" weight/mass would not prove a problem.

I wonder how many garden lines are level?
Mine certainly will not be level.

If you have a model BR Sulzer Type 4 (TOPS class 44/45/46) then I guess gradients would not prove a problem if it were to have power scale BHP output producing scale T.E. (I believe they could sail up the 1:37 Lickey on heavy expresses without banking assistance) but if you have steam traction, the same scenario required anything up to 3 tank locos as bankers, even with class 6P/7P 4-6-0s at the head.

John.

[AllWight]

Hi All

I think the asking price for the Kingscale Mk1s is a bit over the top. A model with out the working doors would prove cheaper with less bits to go wrong or fall off would reduce the asking price.

I am sure it will be a good model but it will need to be robust, so any bits falling off as previously mentioned with the Brit would not go down well with those who might invest in 4 or 5 coaches to go with their pride and joy, namely the Brit. This is a hefty investment in anyones book.

Other note. All of my 00 stock has pin-point axles running in top hat bearings and they are all super smooth. With such minimal friction I wonder why a similar method has not been adopted in G3 by Williams or GRS.
Incidentally my wagons on my 00 exhibition layout "Bembridge" can be blown along as well as having the distinct knack of rolling out of a siding when exhibiting at a show where the floor may not be quite as level as first thought. They never roll in to the buffer stops I notice.

Murphy's law I believe

Mark

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This morning I received a letter from Kingscale stating that customer interest has been that strong that they are in a position to confirm batch production will definitely go ahead. The prod standard prototype will be available for viewing at the end of August 2013.

Dave
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