Why would anyone want to do that, you may ask? Well I can't be the only one to have a flipping driveway just where I would like to lay track... At one time my twisted mind thought about tunnelling beneath, then the prospect of 6" of standing water was unappealing! Of course I could lay temporary sections across as has been described by Peter in the wonderful G3 mag recently. Having a garage already full of clutter and so not wanting to store any temporary sections has encouraged thought in the direction of a permanent way, rather like a tramway or level crossing I suppose, that can be driven over willy-nilly. I have a concept germinating, but I wonder if any of you have tried something like this before, and with any success?
I have aquired a piece of garden in which I have permission to build the first length of demonstration railway. Its main advantage is in having no flowering shrubs or anything remotely considered attractive by SWMBO, and so is effectively in need of development! Enter a surveyor, promoter and navvy, before the weeds get too high! I know the 'Peak' project needs a lot of attention but I just can't pass over an opportunity like this...
Cheers,
Tim ;)
Michael Adamson (GRS), once told me that you could drive over LGB track without damaging it!
I have never owned any LGB track so have not tried it.
If you get some LGB track and remove the rail from it, you might try cutting a channel across the driveway, getting a few concrete paving stones from the garden centre, (the long and narrow type or use an angle grinder to slice a standard square slab in to strips) lay a bed of concrete in the channel (at least 4 inches thick ....1 part cement to 3 of ballast/aggregate) bed the strips of slab into the wet concrete such that the upper surface is the height of the rail below the drive surface and leave to harden for 12 hours.
Prepare a strong mortar mix (1 part LaFarge Extra-Rapid or Castle Quickcem to 2.5 building sand) and use this to bond the rail to the slabs by covering the flat bottom web to a depth of 1.5 mm (you have about 10 minutes to get the gauge/alignment correct before the mix starts to harden).
Within 40 minutes you will be able to insert plasticard spacers to keep the flangeway clear and then fill the voids up to drive surface level with more concrete, made with a fine sharp grit.
When set, remove the plasticard and you have inset track.
If you want to do a "proper" job, you could use more rail instead of plasticard spacers and have a flangeway inner rail, as per the real thing!
That's how I would do it.
John.
There is a combination of G64 & G45 in my garden.
I can reassure you that LGB track is the most robust proprietary G45 track available on the planet.
There are some examples of 25 year old ground level LGB track in my garden where I am continually walking on it when gardening doing the weeding etc. It has never deformed or been damaged by my boots.
As far as a car driving over it is concerned this is nothing to worry about. LGB used to advertise an elephant walking on it.
Just sculpture it into the concrete. Or you can tile it in with quarry tiles like Brian Torr has in his garden. Just check out Brian's youtube to see the results of his efforts.
Dave
454
Thanks very much Dave and John, both of your replies point me in the direction of LGB track. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe that LGB is available in 63.5mm? And if using bare rail set in mortar I don't think I could set the alignment and gauge accurately enough in the short time available for quick-setting concrete to go off, as I am dealing with twin track over a continuous curve of around 25 feet in length. What I think I need is robust track ready prepared on sleepers, to concrete/grout into place. Using society rail and white metal chairs pinned to hardwood sleepers is probably very robust (any view Ralph?) but what a labour of love and a shame to hide it under concrete! Is there another robust alternative such as GRS track in G3? I have never knowingly seen or handled it, but comments I have heard suggest it is pretty durable? Failing that I think I am down to Cliff's very nice, scale-like trackwork with stainless rail.
Cheers, Tim
Tim,
Yes, GRS track would do nicely (it is code 330 rail by Tenmille which is only a fraction lighter than LGB which is available in 45mm gauge only).
I would be wary of using timber since concrete is porous and the dreaded rot would eventually win.
If using my original suggestion, you could intially fix the rail to the concrete slab using "No Nails" or similar and then add the concrete once the rail is aligned and set.
John.
Well Tim,
The stuff is definitely robust enough for me to walk on (105Kg) as I am now using the track work to harvest plums and gages off the trees..... I can supply you with the track making Xylophone and the curve bending "Device". I also have plenty of creosoted sleepers to spare -but remember to keep them outside of the house(!) You could cover the chairs and rail with conduit and then lay your concrete. Once it has gone green lift the conduit and expose the nice chairs and rail. Just a thought!
regards
ralph
Tim
Use GRS flat bottom rail in GRS sleeper sets. Reasonable compromise as there is no 64mm LGB track. The plastic on GRS sleepers seems as robust as LGB & is grouped into 4 sleepers per set whereas Cliff's is separate sleepers only.
Avoid using Cliff B's track as it is too fine for rough & ready immersing into concrete, besides the sleepers are less robust and are prone to cracking with the chairs going AWOL. A recipe for disaster.
Dave
454
OK, suitable quantity of GRS track obtained, and path of the railway marked out across the driveway:
...and this is as far as I got today, digging for a shallow concrete footing with reinforcement wires:
(//)
It may stay like this for a few days if the weather is as bad as forecast!
Regards, Tim 8)
You really got to finish it before SWMBO returneth. No pressure then?
Dave
454
Quote from: 454 on Sep 16 2013 11:34
You really got to finish it before SWMBO returneth. No pressure then?
You're dead right, having a trench across the driveway will not go down well, especially if there's a nice day and she'd like her beloved MX-5 out of the garage! I wonder if I can blame it on a leaking water pipe......
Tim ;D
Tell SWMBO that it's over running engineering works and there is to be a replacement bus service in operation.
Mark
Progress has crept along this week. About 6 yards of trackbed cast with rebar:
(//)
Nearly across the gravel plains of south Derbyshire!
Tim :)
Folks, I shortly need to lay my first lengths of track (yes, long overdue, big roll of drums!). This will be fixed down to concrete across my driveway, and be "tram lined". I need some suggestions please on how to fix it. The track is GRS plastic-sleepered, and the tramlining is expected to be 3/8" aluminium angle, which gives just about the correct height above sleeper level.
My first thoughts are to screw or nail through the angle and sleepers down into the concrete, say every 3rd or 4th sleeper.
My experience of masonry nails is a very low success rate in punching through concrete, so I thought about predrilling the holes, but I'm damned if I can find an SDS drill bit less than 5mm diameter. Masonry nails don't come that fat, do they?
The second thought is to use concrete screws that bite directly into the concrete without a plastic wallplug. That way I can drill through the two items into the concrete and immediately screw down, with no need to lift the track for plugging. However I'm darned if I can find these screws smaller than 6mm, and then the head size is going to clash with the ally angle.
Another idea from John was to use "No Nails" to hold the trackwork down, but will this stuff be good enough to hold the tramlining down to the sleepers? I know once mortared in place with sharp sand/cement it'll probably be OK.
Are there any thoughts on the matter please?
Regards,
Tim
Well I would recommend PINK GRIP to fix the track to the concrete base. This has stuck the guttering to the side of my house for over 6 years. I was initially quite doubtful of my Brother-in-Laws claims for it (he is a builder). but it has held out despite storms etc!!!
regards
ralph
Thanks Ralph, is this a generic product or do I need a specific outlet? The more I think about it, glue is the simple answer!
Cheers, Tim
Tim,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. No there are no specific outlets for Pink Grip. The 350ml cartridges are from eBay, Amazon, Screwfix etc. The best thing to remove the grip from clothes and flesh is brush cleaner. Do not use alcohol or turps as that will spread the glue into your skin.
Regards
Ralph
It's hard to believe over four years have passed since I laid the concrete trackbed across my driveway. It will be truly cured by now! Progress has been happening this autumn and we are now part-way across the drive, the GRS track being fixed down with adhesives, tramlining added from aluminium angle, and it is partly concreted in as shown in the pic below:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/b6iS2b/97_C42875_E2_B8_4284_883_B_9_E63_D6_EA4512.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b6iS2b)
I'd like to hope that we can finish the crossing before the severe frosts and wet weather halt progress.
Tim
Well the tramlined section of Apple Tree Railway is at last complete, and we can drive cars across it willy-nilly without damage. Here is the proof of the pudding!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/k521hw/597_D2_C10_BD1_C_4_E02_BA81_B7_D503_EE5_C42.jpg) (http://ibb.co/k521hw)
The plan is to sweep the gravel over the lines for appearance sake, on days without trains.
I can now put my feet up for the Winter!
Regards, Tim
...and here it is largely gone, disguised from inquisitive eyes.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jkmxNw/B4_DFE8_E9_BED0_471_D_93_D3_569_F2177_C61_E.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jkmxNw)
Tim
Curious to know if the weight of the car over the gravel will drive smaller pieces of gravel into the gap left between rail & tramlining/concrete. I don't know myself, but knowing how the Law of Sod works.........
Just a thought.
Barry
Barry, I fully agree that Sod will raise his familiar head, and I shall have to spend time digging small pieces out of the flangeways! I wonder how real tram systems cope with stones, broken glass etc ...
Regards, Tim
Hi
Real trains can push these out however I have heard stories of vandals and "near do wells" actually filling the gaps in the point blades and the stock rails in order to derail a full size train. This has happened a few times usually from someone who got the sack. Totally abhorrent behaviour I know but even the real trains can become thwarted by an earth fail. I have heard of steam locos being derailed by piles of ash in the yard, quite common in the later days of steam.
Failing tis of course you could re enact the scene from the titfield thunderbolt with a 14xx "its left for Titfield, toot toot"!
Mark
perhaps a strip of steel cut to correct width to fill the gap prior to gravel going over could be useful? sweep gravel away and then remove strip just before running sessions??????
No worries chaps, I'll have a look in the Spring! 8)
"Spring"? No working snowplough then?
Mike
Mike, I know you live in the rolling lowlands of Northants and think of Derbyshire as "the frozen North" but where I am it's close to the heat dump from power stations on the Trent Valley, so any snow will be slushy and short lived, I regret to say! I hardly ever get chance for handbrake spins in the snow! 8)
Regards, Tim
Well I did spend quite a bit of time hooking little bits of gravel out of the flangeways, as per Baz's prediction, but we did get it running as a test track before the AGM.
Here is one peril of a ground level railway!
Regards,
Tim
(https://i.ibb.co/dKHBtdY/4-CCA891-C-B217-4-E39-A5-BF-25-DB4-A755-C28.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dKHBtdY)
OK Tim, when's the GTG....??
...at only a scale 500 yards of double track laid so far Baz, I don't think anyone would travel more than half a mile to ride it!