Anybody recognise this design on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Vintage-Live-Steam-Engine-Train-Locomotive-Tender-Standard-Gauge-/191483194923?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2c9549ae2b.)
Seems to have some keen bidding from a very low starting price.
Andy
No. And just in case anybody noticed where the vendor lives, although he must be near to me it was not me and I have no idea who he is!
Mike
I am not the vendor, nor the buyer, but I can say that this has slip eccentric and is a very sturdy loco. The tender is sprung and seems to have cast sideframes. It has slip eccentrics and is in pretty good condition overall. The unequal wheelbase must give somebody a clue as to what it is and I believe the purchaser may reveal all to us shortly ......
Mike
If it's got a face on the front, it's Gordon...
Gordon is the Blue engine.
Dave
454
Must be Henry then!
Andy
Well, after the frivolity, back to reality! The purchaser has informed me that this is a model produced by J L S, Jubb Limited Sheffield and advertised in 1915. So far as I can see, apart from a coat of paint over the original painting and lining, it is completely original and in good condition. I think it important that historical models like this are saved for posterity and this one is now in a G3 Vintage group to be conserved and shown from time to time for benefit of members.
It could not have gone to a better home and I hope in due course more history like this will appear in our Newsletter, because there is so much I don't know about the early days and the more I hear the more fascinating it becomes.
Mike
Mike,
Good to know that it's gone to a good home.
I've been 'collecting' Jubb catalogue and advert pages from around the web and they are posted here.
The wheel spacing of teh ebay loco gives the impression of being a 4-4-2 built as a 4-6-0.
Jubb clearly worked on 'Greenly's Standardised parts' to create a range of models that had a passing resemblence to a particular prototype, without being too accurate when it came to wheelbase, etc..
Apart from the GCR tank, all the other locos listed are 4-6-0 or 4-4-2 which also supports the use of essentially the the same running gear and boilers, just with different platework to give the impression of a particular loco.
Note that the GCR tank shown in their catalogue page is not the model!
In one list is a 'Tullis Standard 4-6-0'.
Who or what was 'Tullis'? - that's not a name I've come across.
Andy
Andy,
I am delighted to hear that I am not alone in liking these vintage models and even yourself, as a finescale rivet counter (in the nicest sense of course) appreciates them too. Maybe I'm not mad afterall. Maybe ...
I hope some of our expert members will be encouraged to write about them. Many years ago Revd. Alan Cliff wrote a booklet summarising all the commercial manufacturers of 0 Gauge models and maybe eventually something similar could be done for Gauge 3, as standard reference work.
Mike
Andy,
Being a Yorkshire ex pat in exile in Derbyshire & being born & bred in Sheffield the adverts depicting W.H.Jubb intrigued me somewhat. Which prompted me to jog along memory lane to rediscover 12 Brittain Street should it still exist in Sheffield. Hey presto it still exists running parallel to Matilda Street which I knew well. But how 12 Brittain Steet seems today is a mystery & it's survival in the WW2 monumental city blitz mystifies me.
But, the knowledge of Jubb Ltd has come late in life in the last couple of years since seeing Ebay & various auction offerings emerging from attic finds etc.
The change in values intrigues me also:
Internally fired live steam locomotive.
2 1/2 inch gauge £14 10s 0d in "old money".
Finest Value ever offered as the advert goes.....
Haven't times changed?
But the mystery continues with the "Tullis" connection.
D & J Tullis were machine tool makes from Clydebank. The name Tullis is also connected with a Scottish firm dealing in industrial belting. But these references could be "red herrings". I leave others to zero in to the real meaning.
The adverts were equally antiquarian as were the adverts of Jubb, so I offer them as possible sources of info that may lead to a possible solution to the research game.
Good hunting
Dave
454
shame, they're not still going, I need a pair of crossheads like that. Is there a comparable company today?
I have a copy of an old Jubb catalogue which was copied for me by by another Society Member (sorry - forgotten who) quite a few years ago. I was interested in themj because I had acquired a very old chassis in poor condition and decided to salvage the cylinders from them. They were (are) branded "JLS".
In my copy - this engine is shown as a 'Mixed Traffic Locomotive 4-6-0 type' - and states that "this engine follows in design the GCR Fast Mixed Traffic Engines and is a highly efficient model. Some specs are given (meths fired, 15ft dia curves, 5/8 x 1" cylinder stroke. At the front of the catalogue it states that Henry Greenly "is on our permanent staff as designer" - so I think we can assume this is a Greenly design.
Price £12-10s-00 complete in box, pressure gauge extra.
Regards,
IanT
And thanks to AndyB's identification, another one surfaces ! In rather sad condition and without boiler, but with link valvegear, the question is what to do with it eventually ? I must say the model as intended is a pretty ugly mish mash of pregrouping CME's favourite parts and an oversize boiler .
Think you are being a bit unkind Ian. It looks to me like a cross between an Immingham or maybe the smaller wheeled Fish 4-6-0 and an A5 4-6-2T. Can't see the boiler from your photo but unless it has historical value could it not be fitted with a smaller boiler and change the shape of those frames and being a reasonable Fish class 4-6-0? Which are very attractive.
Let's be positive. Cylinders look nice, connecting rod looks nice so chances are the engineering is sound and it has a definite Great Central feel to it. There is an expert on vintage in the G3S (he's also in the N2.5GA) and he reads these forums sometimes, so he might give you some suggestions.
Mike
Quote from: unklian on Sep 06 2016 11:12
..... the question is what to do with it eventually ? I must say the model as intended is a pretty ugly mish mash of pregrouping CME's favourite parts and an oversize boiler .
It's a difficult one, especially if one has more 'finescale' tendencies!
My thoughts are that (subject to confirmation by a vintage G3 expert) there is sufficient of the original Jubb model to be of historical value, and with a new boiler made to the original size, but possibly different construction, and 'replica' tin-work, it could be rebuilt into a working model that represents the state of G3 around 100 years ago.
It can never be turned into a faithful model of any particular loco (without replacing most of it), so why try?
You never know, one of our vintage collectors may have some spares to fit it!
Footnote - the use of 'vintage' above refers to the models, not the people ;)
Andy
If you want a scale model - best to start from scratch and build one to meet that requirement - much easier than trying to modify an existing (and largely non-prototype) engine.
However, if the mechanics are sound and it's well built (hard to tell from here) then why not settle for a smart looking engine that runs well and generally doesn't look too out of place. There are a quite a few engines to be seen at GTGs that are far from "scale" (most LBSC designs for instance) but their owners still seem to very much enjoy running them (which is the object of the exercise).
It's also surprising what a good clean and some new paint can do to improve the attractiveness of these older engines - partial or complete. I'm not sure myself about recreating the G3 engines of 100 years ago though, I'm not a great fan of things like oversized rivets on tender sides and the use of cross-headed screws on platework for instance, as I think our taste in these things is a bit more refined these days.
But if the basic mechanicals are OK - why not do a "in the style of" something you like - be it specific railway or CME. It's largely the boiler, chimney, dome and cab shape, plus the livery that gives this sense of time and place. There were lots of 'designed but never actually built' engines in the past - if anyone asks just tell them that it was one of them.... ;-)
Regards,
IanT
Thanks for all the comments chaps,
I am in no rush to do anything with this one, I have a 'few' more projects to get done first. I did have a look north of the border in my researches and I think a Highland Jones goods or Castle could fit quite well. But we shall see,
Regards Ian