Wallis and Wallis have in auction what they describe as:
"An impressive 2.5 inch gauge live steam spirit fired tender locomotive 'Challenger' running number 3789. An engineer built model of a 2-8-2 in the style of a Stanier LMS 8F locomotive. Finished in dark green with black running plate and frames, copper bands and hand rails, sprung buffers, drop link couplings, controls to cab, chimney, dome and safety valve. With a standard LMS style 6 wheeled tender. Basically sound but in need of restoration. Length overall 96cm. Sold as a collector's item only, not for running. Presented on a section of display track. Note: Following extensive research within the model engineering world this has been accepted to be the historic locomotive designed by Henry Greenly for W.J. Bassett-Lowke that featured in the 1924 'Battle of The Boilers' at the Model Engineer Exhibition' between Bassett-Lowke and model engineer Mr. Lillian (Curley) Lawrence (LBSC). His smaller coal fired locomotive was a 4-4-2 'Brighton Atlantic' named Ayesha. The challenge was based on the power output of a spirit fired against a coal powered boiler. Both locomotives succeeded in meeting the challenge of hauling a driver for 15 minutes on an 'up and down' track. The final results assessed Ayesha to be the winner in this undoubted David & Goliath contest. The Lot includes a file containing detailed accounts in various contemporary and subsequent publications."
Estimate is £800 - £1200. I'm not really interested in freelance, but for some reason I rather like this one!
The auctioneer's blurb could be read to infer that this is the actual original engine constructed by Greenly himself. Anyone know if that is the case?
Mike
Greenly didn't actually build the engine Mike, although he seems to have designed it.
Quoting Brian Hollingsworth from 'LBSC - His Locomotives and His Life'
"For this BL had built especially in their works a large and handsome 3-cylinder spirit fired 2-8-2 with water tube boiler: the locomotive was appropriately called Challenger. The formidable resources of that famous firm made an excellent job of a special Henry Greely design."
Regards,
IanT
From what I've been told, this is the original Challenger built by BL for the 1924 ME exhibition. Unfortunately, it appears to have lost the original 8 wheel tender which makes it a bit less desireable. I think BL would dispute the claim that LBSC's Ayesha was the outright winner of the challenge that followed!
Link to a photo of Challenger at the 1924 Exhibition:
http://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/w/images/Bassett-Lowke_stand,_Model_Engineer_Exhibition_1924.jpg (http://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/w/images/Bassett-Lowke_stand,_Model_Engineer_Exhibition_1924.jpg)
BL did sell parts and complete copies of Challenger after the original was built so there may be more than one of them about. David White kindly sent me a copy of their advert - A complete RTR locomotive was £75.
Gerald Chandler tells me that both Ayesha and Challenger were on the N25GA stand at Sandown some years ago. It would be nice to see them together again.
John
A good spot Mike :)
That engine has got a certain style to it with tons of patina and quite some provenance. If it is as suggested, the actual Challenger that took part in the Battle of the Boilers, then part of me thinks its a shame it has seen so many cosmetic changes. On the other hand, they all add to its story. I'd like to see it posed next to Ayesha too.
Thanks for putting the link up to the photo of Challenger John, I've been reading up about the Battle of the Boilers (or at least what I can found out about it online) so its a timely post.
Steve
Been doing a bit of research this morning. The loco is the original Challenger and is owned by a gentleman who is an honourary member of the N25GA. I won't mention his name as I don't think that would be appropriate as he is very ill at the moment and in care. He purchased the loco in 1990 or 91.
Shortly after the 'Battle of the Boilers' the locomotive was sold and converted to coal firing! The large 8 wheeled tender was replaced by the smaller 6 wheel one as this was thought better suited to coal firing. I assume that it still has the replacement coal fired boiler, although the auction blurb does say spirit fired?
John
Hi all,
Just been reading this thread with interest after it showed up on a Google search I was doing whilst researching the Challenger loco. I thought it was worth registering here and joining in!
I've a company called The Steam Workshop, where we restore live steam models. We usually deal with 3 1/2" gauge and larger, although we do get the odd gauge 3 and 2 1/2" model come through, so I'll include the website address below in case it's of interest to you all.
We are obviously enthusiasts here at Steam Workshop, and have a passion for both the models and the history of model engineering. To that end we are hoping to be successful in bidding for the Challenger model at the auction, with the intention of putting her through a sympathetic restoration back into running condition. We would like to take the model back to as close to original form as possible, including the manufacture of a replica bogie tender, and the removal of the unsalvageable paintwork & polishing up of the existing plate work.
Ben, one of our guys is currently constructing a replica of LBSC's original Ayesha, so as you can imagine we've already undertaken quite a bit of research into the models, although it would be superb if any of you have any information, photographs or otherwise that might help us to achieve as authentic, and sympathetic restoration as possible. (Assuming of course we are successful at the auction,.... wish us luck!)
www.steamworkshop.co.uk
Simon
Welcome to this forum Simon and good luck with your purchase. Must admit that I'd never heard of you but looking at your website you have had some lovely models through your hands and down to Gauge 1 too, which gives me confidence that you can handle Gauge 3 easily enough.
Hope to hear more of your Gauge 3 exploits in due course. Did you know that you can advertise in the Society's Newsletter very cheaply?
Mike
Very interesting website Simon.
Robert. 492
Thanks Mike and Robert. Yes, we are fairly new,.... we've been going for about 3 years properly, and moved into a decent sized workshop unit about a year ago. We are a workshop first and dealer second,.... although obviously the buying and selling second hand models effectively props up the workshop side of things as there's really no viable main stream business to be had in commercial model engineering. Wages are too high and model values too low. That said, we are carving our self a reputation for high quality, attention to detail and finish rather than basic model engineering jobs. Cold as it may sound, there is more satisfaction, cudos and value in working on and producing an exhibition quality Duchess than there is through spending time working on a Tich!
The Business plan is essentially that the quality of work we produce in the workshop bolsters confidence in buying from us a second hand model,.... which all obviously get checked and fixed in the workshops before we pass them on. :) We also have a very active Facebook page where there are lots of updates for people to follow progress on all our projects and latest stock. This is turning into a bit of an advert now though, so apologies. I'd love to do something in your society newsletter Mike, drop me the details of what I need to do and we will put something together. If we get the Greenly Challenger, then we will do a write up on the restoration for you too! :)
Cheers
Simon
Just thought that I would let you all know,....... we won it! :)
I will make sure that we put up a nice thread on our website and facebook page to follow the restoration when it starts. If anyone has any info or photos that might help we'd be really grateful to hear from you. :)
Thank all.
Simon
www.steamworkshop.co.uk
Hello Simon,
I've got scans of the articles that appeared in Model Engineer where Henry Greenly describes the construction of the loco. The articles do contain the drawings that may be useful. Think we've got copies of most of the original drawings as well but they are only the same as appeared in ME.
John
That would be absolutely superb John! Save us a lot of faff trying to track all that down if you would be good enough to send them to us. I'm on 07816 963463 if you fancy giving me a bell so we can sort something out?
Thanks again :)
Simon
Just read your article in the N2.5GA "Steam Chest" on this engine, Simon. A fascinating piece of history.
For us small scale (i.e. Gauge 3) modellers, can you outline the services you provide? Your website implies that you do anything for steam locos from rebuilding and machining to painting and lining. Is that correct? Do you take on restorations of vintage locos too?
Mike