The Forum for Gauge 3 Model Trains

In order to cease referring to the anonymous "Exhibition Track", we have decided to name the Society's line "Monkton Priors", a fictional country branch terminus (although I do see from a Google search there is a Somerset school of that name but not a village or station... purely a coincidence).

The track plan will be as previously advertised and regular reports on progress will appear here.

(http://g3forum.org.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1687.0;attach=2841;image)

The construction crew (so far) consists of Roy Horrocks, Ian Turner and myself.

John.

I am pleased to announce that Steve Cook has joined our team.

More help will enable the project to progress rapidly and you don't need to travel to help : There will be lots of smaller assembly jobs which can be done from home/by post.

John.

John,

Just one comment in that it looks a little short. If the platform is 13ft, the fiddle yard is 21ft then the longest train is 13ft and experience of the two layouts I assist with I would suggest that the fiddle yard is converted to scenery.
K

Keith, thank you for your feedback.

The fiddle yard will have a 4 track traverser and the idea is that the yard will be able to accommodate up to 8 trains, the normal local being two carriages plus a tank or 0-6-0 tender, with the option of a diesel railcar.
The occasional excursion may be up to 5 coaches plus a Mogul or 4-6-0.

Goods trains will likely be longer than the normal passenger trains, since the yard can hold around 28 wagons.

The fiddle yard will probably be shielded in some way but at the moment, volunteers are a little thin on the ground, so there will be a limit to what can be achieved (and funding will also dictate how far we can go).

Regards,
John.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if its modular, presumably a extra board or three can be inserted in the middle should that be found desirable in the future, or if exhibition space allows?

Mike

Mike,

Yes, it would be possible to add boards to either end of the scenic section.  in fact it is being built so that it would be possible for the scenic section to become part of a complete circuit, using the "modules" proposed by Ian T.

Regards,
John.

Monkton Priors ... Signalling

Volunteer(s) wanted .... to construct the signals.
This is one of those tasks for which you do not need to live close to the centre of activity.
The signals will "plug in" to the baseboard mechanisms (controlled electrically) and be lit by LED.
Full instructions, together with parts/materials will be supplied.
YOUR chance to help with the Society's exhibition layout.
Please reply to this message and/or discuss with the team at the AGM.
John. 

Your fiddle yard traverser sounds too big and heavy. On blackgang the fiddleyard sector plate which has roller bearings from 7 1/4" coaches is at it's limit of what is do able with two trains on the two tracks. If you have a GRS prairie with b set on one line and an IOW 02 on the other line with two coaches it's very heavy. To have four lines will be nigh on impossible to move. Also I would reduce the length of the fiddle yard and put the space now spare to scenic run in. Limit yourself to what is realistically possible on train sizes and variation. The shorter the train the further it appears to travel.

Blackgang was built around the known items of stock that I had when building it. The main platform was designed to allow an 02 to stop in a certain position with it's two coach set run around and be sat behind the signal. Also when the same train arrived into the fiddle yard there was sufficient room for the complete train to arrive in and another loco put onto the coaches with some operational flexibility. To have a 5 coach train involved lots of boxes. The size layout you are proposing will require 6 staff minimum a car and a transit van to move the layout people and locos/rolling stock boxes around.


Mark

Mark,

Thank you for your observations.
We realised that the traverser would be unwieldy and an alternative of a siding arrangement is being considered.
We are keen to have maximum train length capacity, since it is being designed to form part of a larger, portable, garden track and not as a "stand alone" exhibition line.

The fiddle yard is to have 4 tracks and be capable of holding trains up to 17ft in length (or two shorter trains per track).

Ian is working on a more compact modular system to reduce volume for transportation.

Yes, the ideal number of volunteers would be 6 but we will have to make do with what we can get!

There are three types of G3S member in my book:-

1) Those who are in it for what they can take out and criticise others for not making enough effort.
2) Those who contribute to the best of their ability.
3) Those who make an exceptional contribution to promoting G3 and the G3 Society.

There has been a lot of criticism over the years at the lack of a portable/exhibition track.......let's now see how many of the critics are ready to stand up and be counted.

Regards,
John.

Being a person who calculates and works things out rather than "knows" -I suppose I am the ultimate critic...

I have abandoned the traverser on my layout.  It was only 2 track 12 feet long but was just too big even with mechanical assistance. I did this after watching them wrestle at the GCR last year...

The problem you are going to have is the startup rolling resistance. The human arm generates 1/10th HP call it 70W. I used an M12 threaded bar and a 15cm crank and I could wang the traverser across 20cm in under 10 seconds. Thus I would say you are going to have to have 2 guys cranking for 30 seconds to move from tracks 1 to 4.

Your best bet is electrical power assistance. Gearbox design is no problem. Tim has a source of quite powerful motors used in wheelchairs. Muffet make big MOD2 gears. Moving the unit is then down to push button selection and monster power relays. Some thought is going to have to be given as to the rating of the thrust bearing on the ends of the screws and "synch"  balance propshafts between the gearboxes to even out the load. I would say that you would need 4 or preferably 5 power movers.

Mark is quite right that you would need very robust roller race bearings -but can I offer a suggestion that is used in the computer industry for moving cabinets? SLIDING.... Paxolin is a lubricant and bearing material. Whilst the total mass of a loaded cabinet is quite high, (circa 2 metric tonnes), the force per unit is actually quite low. The underside of the traverser has wide slats of Paxolin taking the down thrust. These can sit in throughs that the traverser moves across in.

If you like I can design one for you....

regards

ralph

Ralph,

Thank you for your comments and the offer to design a suitable bearing surface.
I had assumed that a mechanical geared system (either man-powered or electrically propelled) would be required to move the deck and with a push-button system would make it even simpler (and require fewer volunteers).

I will see what the "team" thinks of your proposal .... they are skeptical of the traverser idea and are more in favour of the siding approach but the traverser would take up less overall length and that is an important consideration.

Regards,
John.

John,

If you are changing the traverser to sidings, will you make that end scenic too?

Also, I suggest there is a fourth type of member which accounts for a large majority, those who just pay their sub, read the Newsletter, maybe make the occasional model and that is all they want.  But before anyone says we must get these people involved, I say that's the best way to frighten them off and we need their subscription income, so leave them alone.

Mike

Mike,

Quotethose who just pay their sub, read the Newsletter, maybe make the occasional model and that is all they want

Indeed, "God Bless 'em" .... long may they continue!

My sights are set on Category 1) .... typically, they will attend GTGs, consume large quantities of free cake and beverages....and then not be heard of until the next GTG.

Quote
If you are changing the traverser to sidings, will you make that end scenic too?

Nothing ruled out and nothing ruled in (how's that for a non-committal typical politician's reply)!!
Again....it all depends on man-power (i.e. volunteers).

Regards,
John

Any signalling experts out there (I mean professional IRSE men, not the armchair types)?

Attached is a suggested signalling plan for Monkton Priors ..... loosely GWR in concept.
Any expert comments/suggestions?

There is a mixture of standard and short stop arms (some with rings or "S" attached), a calling on arm (to enable two passenger trains to arrive/stand at the platform) and ground discs (including one "yellow" type at the goods yard exit (to allow permissive access to headshunt).

Regards,
John.

P.S. The colours of the "stop" ground discs have been inverted for purposes of this diag. since a white disc will not show on a white background!

I have forwarded your draft to T.B-L at Westinghouse... Do not expect a favourable reply -or one that is even polite!!! Fortunately Tourette syndrome does not extend to type written answers....

regards

ralph

Thank you Ralph .... I await any response with interest!

Regards,
John.

Hi.
I am not to busy for the forseeable future so would be willing to help with items such as signal construction if materials are supplied. Due to living in the Scottish Highlands not able to do much else.
Tim Dearman

Hi Tim,

Pleased to have you "on the Team".

Signal construction will be an important aspect since we propose that all signalling and pointwork will be electrically controlled (and possibly digitally inter-locked if the cost is not too high).

I will add you to the member group which is able to "post" to the "reporting" board of the forum.

We are currently assessing the specific signalling requirements and sourcing supplies of parts.

Will keep you "in the loop" via email.

Thanks again.

John.

Hello Tim,

Welcome to the team.  Thanks for volunteering to construct the signals.

Roy

If you are going to have a long fiddle yard the easier way around the issue of a full traverser is to have a short traverser with multie tracks that can be slid back and forth thus allowing the main route to be connected to each siding or a flexible length of track instead of a point.

Mark

Another (real world) technique is to have a rotating disc with connections from the fiddle yard to the exit point. Before you laugh the Wehrmacht used this technique to direct ammunition trains to the correct guns on the Siegfried line from the arsenal....

regards

ralph

Ralph,

I won't laugh, since that had occurred to me but the width required would be excessive for exhibition purposes and I can imagine the rotating "deck" being supported on girders.... or at least substantial angle irons!

Some kind of sector table arrangement had also crossed my mind but the "lead in" from the straight running track to the parallel (fixed) sidings would require some complicated track arrangement on the sector table (although not impossible).

Regards,
John.

The exhibition layout sponsorship mugs have just arrived....and very smart they look.

Both sides of a single mug are shown (there are not two designs) and at 6.75GBP each, will be available at the AGM and GTG's and other events (assuming any are left)!

All proceeds help towards the cost of the new G3S layout "Monkton Priors".

John.

Any chance that the mug may be available by post for those of us remote fromBiggleswade.
Tim

Tim,

I would like to think so BUT the problem could be getting it to you in one piece.

It would need to be carefully/well packed and even then there is no guarantee the Royal Mail won't try their very best to break it!

These are to be sold by the G3S, so it is for the committee to decide (there .... I just passed the Buck)!

Regards,
John.

Fresh from the Paintshop........two more lineside/scenic items which you will be able to bid for at the AGM (proceeds go to the Monkton Priors track fund).

The two "grounded" van bodies are of GER Diagram 15 and LSWR (SR D1410) sliding door vans. These are correct scale models and have been made from the same patterns as supplied to Williams Models for the equivalent full van kits.
They are ready to use (cast in resin so suitable for outdoor use) and just need you to "customise" them with notices, weathering, etc., to suit your taste.

Such old vans were used in goods yards and on country station platforms as lamp huts (to store paraffin, wicks, lamps,etc), general parcel stores, tool stores (particularly in Loco depot yards) and to store anything else which required to be "locked up".
I shall not be making any more grounded bodies for sale (at least not to these patterns), so this will be your only opportunity to obtain one.

To re-cap on the items being offered for sale tomorrow (these are all brand new and have been specially constructed over the past two weeks, to provide funds for Monkton Priors):-
LNER Type D pre-cast concrete platelayers hut
LNWR timber coaling stage
Grounded GER van body
Grounded LSWR van body

The LNWR Fogman's huts will now become prizes in a raffle (again to support Monkton Priors) and there will be three (along with other items of "railway interest" as well as non-railway prizes).... so buy raffle tickets and you will have three chances to win a fogman's hut!

Oh....and don't forget to buy the "special edition" coffee mugs (there are plenty of these available at just 6.75GBP each).

John.

The LNWR fogman's hut models (three of which were taken to the AGM and given as raffle prizes in support of Monkton Priors) attracted a great deal of attention and interest.

As a consequence, I have produced another batch of five and am offering these for sale (again proceeds go to the Society's exhibition track fund) at 15GBP each (collected from a G3S event) or 17GBP to include postage to UK postcodes.

If there is sufficient interest, I am also considering producing a batch of fogman's huts to drawing No. 21 of the  MS&LR (Manchester, Sheffield & Lincolnshire Rlwy...later to become the Great Central).
Link to drawing http://www.swithland-signal-works.co.uk/plans/21_Fogmans_Permanent_Shelter.jpg

If you wish to purchase a LNWR hut, please email me admin@g3forum.org.uk .

If interested in the MS&LR(GCR) hut then post a reply to this message.