I think the time has come to reorganise this forum and its associated websites, to better cater for the members.
At present, the principal associated site is www.g3madesimple.org.uk , which does not allow articles to be added, other than by the administrator (i.e. me).
There is a lot of info scattered around this forum which becomes invisible quite rapidly (once the topic "goes cold") and could usefully be placed in a repository, as Ralph and others have suggested.
I intend to "wind down" my day-to-day involvement with "web matters", while maintaining overall control of the domains and hosting and my proposals are as follows.
1) www.g3madesimple.org.uk be discontinued with the content transferred to www.gauge3.info
2) Useful content of g3forum.org.uk be collated, reorganised and also moved to gauge3.info
3) Gauge3.info becomes an asset managed by members of this forum, where (subject to moderation) anyone can can contribute G3 content. Applications, including Joomla and Coppermine, are examples of the available tools which may be employed to manage gauge3.info
None of the above affects the continuation of this forum, which will act as a bridge to gauge3.info content, while freeing up the forum for discussion, rather than clogging with "indexable" reference content.
The domain and the hosting platform already exist and no cost is involved.
Suggestions and volunteers required.
John.
Ok count me in. I don't know the software you refer to but probably there is a debian equivalent(?)
Regards
Ralph
Thank you Ralph.
Here is a link to a PDF showing the available (free) applications which will self-install www.lakes-pages.com/gauge3info_applcns.pdf (http://www.lakes-pages.com/gauge3info_applcns.pdf)
The server runs LINUX and I have set to PHP7.0 (it can be back-dated to earlier PHP if incompatible with an installed application).
I am hoping for a couple more volunteers to form a team to set up and run the show (apart from initial work there will need to be ongoing "moderation" of content submitted, to ensure copyright issues, etc. do not arise),
Regards,
John.
Hi John,
As it's open source s/w that runs on Linux, I can offer my support too.
I don't know how much time I'll have to help with initial set up, but can certainly help with ongoing maintenance and moderation.
Andy
Thank Andy,
Apart from collating the initial content, there will be necessary registration and monitoring of users, to edit material submitted and prevent unwanted content being uploaded.
At present, the application I am favouring is MediaWiki (which is the same software as developed for Wikipedia) and I have experimented with this in the past. In fact I set up a Gauge 3 Society sample the year before I relinquished control and got as far as testing it but, like the "shopping cart" system I set up a few years earlier, there was no interest expressed by the other committee members in support of it, so I wasn't prepared to waste any more time on it! Nothing is "set in stone", so suggestions welcome.
This time, there seems to be support from members of this forum, who are more forward-looking and seeking better ways of collating and disseminating information, so I am prepared to "give it a go"!
I appreciate that members have a limited amount of time to dedicate to such projects, which is why a team is needed to manage it (and to ensure it continues when I am no longer in a position to oversee the operation).
I have quickly drafted a (by no means exhaustive) table of contents as attached for observations and suggestions.
1) Layout Planning.
a)Outdoor
b) Indoor
2) Laying the foundations
Options : (materials, elevation above ground level, etc.)
3) Trackwork
a) Choices (brands / standards / methods of control and electrification)
b) Turnouts and pointwork options (including construction and operating methods)
c) Laying thetrack.
d) To ballast or not to ballast?
4) Locomotives
a) Choice of propulsion
b) Sourcing models
c) Kit construction (specific case notes)
5) Rolling Stock
a) Passenger stock
b) Freight stock
6) Signalling and control
7) Buildings and scenery
Appendices:
Directory of Traders
Sources of help and assistance.
John ,
To me there is one obvious omission... As I am a scratch builder there is no entry for data tables etc that I can work from. You will also need formulae and "worked examples". There should be some entries on how a scratch builder can "guesstimate" from photos and plans.
regards
ralph
Let's add:-
8. Data Collection and Drawings
a) Preparing Scale Drawings from scratch
b) Extracting measurements and data from photographs (e.g. use of "Gimp")
Add to Appendices :
"Useful Tables and conversion factors"
Also, I suggest, "Materials and Fixings for Specific Projects" with sub-headings:
Metals
Plastics/resins
Timber
Soldering/welding
Riveting
Adhesives
Other Fixings
Fillers
Paints/Varnish
Transfers
John.
I would certainy have things to say regarding timber and fixing methods.
Though I would love to learn more about measurments from photos.
It would seem that we have a viable project! What we need now is a set of "in boxes" for people to post to. What we also need is a grab bag area for pictures of locos and rolling stock that is either out of copyright or we have snapped ourselves. I have several hundreds of shots from York, Barrow Hill, Severn Valley etc . I would also appeal for a reference section. BA, UNF, MC MF BSW ME etc. Although I seem to be pedantic Zeus is not up to the job anymore...
Regards
Ralph
UPDATE on Gauge3.info development.
I am exploring (with Ralph) the most effective application for managing this site.
MediaWiki (which is the application developed to power "Wikipedia") is currently being assessed, while an alternative is "Joomla", a widely used Content Management application.
I don't feel that WordPress (a "blogging" tool) is appropriate for type of content submission envisaged.
Comments appreciated (and a couple more volunteers to run it)!
John
Having spent some time with it in "the sandbox" the system is far too complex for what we need... John please install Joombla for evaluation.
regards
ralph
Ralph,
I have "uninstalled" the MediaWiki and Joomla now installed in directory /infobase
Login as before.
John.
Slight technical problem! I don't seem to be able to do anything with it . Do I have admin level permission?
regards
ralph
Oops!
Forgot to assign permissions when I registered your username (got interrupted see below) ..... now corrected......should work!
Past few days (since I started this) I have been badgered by dozens of emails per day and by phone calls from USA (three yesterday) and India (two today) by people wanting to design the site....for a fee of course!
If only the members of the G3S were as enthusiastic to help with projects.
Regards,
John.
I have designed a "header" for the new site which can be viewed at
http://gauge3.info/
It is restrained and "workmanlike" rather than "flashy", which I believe it should be, to reflect the nature of the content BUT, if you disagree, then feel free to add comments.
John.
Visually your colours are wrong. The dark grey makes the orange difficult the read. Try a pale blue or green background with black letters.
Regards
Ralph
I wasn't too happy with the orange either .....try this one..... http://gauge3.info/
Regards,
John.
That's a lot better. Next step is produce the initial menu for users to choose from.
Regards
Ralph
John, Ralph,
Constructive feedback, I hope:
The initial header looks fine to me on a laptop with big enough screen.
Is it legible enough for Smartphone users, though? I don't have one so am unable to test.....
Designing pages that work equally well in landscape format on a big screen and in portrait format on a tiny screen does present extra challenges!
One other comment for now - this thread is currently under 'track construction'. Might be worth splitting it off and locating somewhere more suitable ("Reaching a wider audience?")
Andy
The black on white at the bottom is completely legible but the red on green grey is a bit "squinty". I have composed the initial contents page which we can now publish. I admit I like the blue hibiscus flower but something more suitable perhaps???
Regards
Ralph
Ralph,
I have replaced the blue flower logo with a view of Monkton Priors!
HOWEVER, something strange is happening.....with IE11 it displays as it should BUT with Google Chrome, the "ghost" of the blue flower is lingering (in the form of a "missing image" tag).
I have cleared the Chrome cache but it is still there ..... don't have time to delve into it now.....what do you see when you sign in?
Regards,
John.
Have got rid if the "ghost" by replacing image with a 1 x 1 pixels transparent image named blue-flower.jpg
It's still there but you can't now see it.!
John
Quote from: Andy B on Jun 15 2017 10:03
.
Is it legible enough for Smartphone users, though? I don't have one so am unable to test.....
Andy
I often read this forum on my phone. I usually just zoom into a desktop page and the most recent banner is very legible.
Thanks to all for the comments and feedback.
I have been meaning to split the topic for a couple of days but haven't got around to it.
Have been awake since 4am (for third day in a row) so am not feeling my "brightest" at the moment but will deal with it later.
Regards,
John.
OK, I have put in two simple articles to allow us to see if we like it.
No, I am using FireFox and I still have the blue flower?
regards
ralph
Should anyone else be able to see it? Or just you and John for now?
I just reloaded the page, but see only the header still.
Andy
Andrew,
You "should" be able to see this here?
http://www.gauge3.info/infobase/2-uncategorised/4-outdoor-layouts (http://www.gauge3.info/infobase/2-uncategorised/4-outdoor-layouts)
http://www.gauge3.info/infobase/2-uncategorised/3-contents (http://www.gauge3.info/infobase/2-uncategorised/3-contents)
It seems to work for me? But then I have admin level power....
regards
ralph
Ralph
Just clicked on your links and it tells me - Authorization required .
OK I have set them to GUEST rather than public.
try again?
No - still says "Authorization Required"
:(
Ralph,
Attached is what you should be seeing..... your browser must be displaying a cached version.
Until the permissions, etc. to protect against spamming and the "moderation" system (for approval of submissions is in place) the directory containing the Joomla installation is password protected.
I need to spend time reviewing all the optional settings before opening to the public.
Regards,
John
A statement on the progress with setting up the new site can be seen at gauge3.info (http://gauge3.info)
I have been asked why the screen grab above does not look like the URL page...
This is because the URL page is not connected to Joomla. Joomla is a Content Management System. This means that the articles submitted are indexed by a database (in this case SQL). Typing "prunes" into the search box will give you all the articles dealing with prunes. Joomla exists in two parts. The "front end" is the one that you see in the screen grab. The "back end" is where the articles are written, edited and then posted to the front end for searching and reading.
The authors will have their own log on to the Back End for producing articles. The editor is very easy to use (it is a clone of Brief) and any image that you insert has to be of JPG or PNG format for ease of viewing across multiple browsers and operating systems. The initial option was a Wikipedia generator that was frankly far to hard to grasp and complex. The Joomla system is far more logical and familiar to anyone who has used Netscape, a word processor or a DTP kit. I have been testing it with Debian 8 using both FireFox and Chrome. The test results look identical apart from Chrome showing JPGs a little "darker" than FireFox.
In fact there are no minimum number of authors or moderators required for production. The two authors we have at the moment could (slowly) produce everything that we need. But as in all things "many hands make light work".... We are not asking for Shakespeare or Tolstoy length manuscripts, but a new Lillian or Henry paragraph! If you don't think you can be creative and write then be a moderator -who's job is to make sure that it is correct and suitable for posting.
regards
ralph
UPDATE : My server is throwing up systems-related error messages when configuring Joomla options and has (so far) defeated attempts to correct it.
(For those who are familiar with such matters) it appears to be PHP related, since different versions produce a variety of different faults. Upgrades and reinstallation of Joomla have made matters worse!
I am pondering (in consultation with Ralph) the options, which include another attempt with a "clean installation" (following a manual "uninstall") of Joomla and alternative CMS applications (such as Wordpress).
This hot weather (for me at least) is not conducive to clear thinking and I feel exhausted from dawn to dusk!
Bring on the Monsoon!
John.
Just to let you know that the battle is still being faught! We have abandoned Joomla, we rejected Doku as it was very limited in what it could do. John is currently wrestling with his server and trying to install Drupal. No, I haven't any idea how they decide on these names either...
Regards
Ralph
We may have something that works.... It is similar to WIKI but it doesn't use the rather extreme formatting options that WIKI does! the editor is alas NOT WYSIWYG but is a formatting mark up language instead. This is similar to Wordstar or TEXX . It is not too hard to use and maybe as John put it "a bit clunky". But I have used far worse. Each page name has to be unique as the editor squeezes out the spaces between the words. Thus to improve readability I would have to insist on each word of the name beginning with a capital letter.
viz:
The History Of The Great Central Railway.
Becomes
TheHistoryOfTheGreatCentralRailway
rather than
thehistoryofthegreatcentalrailway
Which improves readability for the poor editor trying to find the page!
regards
ralph
sorry, are we supposed to see anything yet? I can find gauge3.info, but get no further
Geoff,
At present I am still working on the configuration options and security options for the application and, until the user permissions and passwords have been defined, the directory in which the "wiki" is situated will remain protected (by password) and not be linked into the domain base directory.
Some of the "issues" referred to by Ralph have since been resolved by tweaking the config files and it is becoming more "user friendly".
It is all happening "behind the scenes" at present.
John.
This is what the page look like to the viewer (screenshot1).
This is what the page looks like through the editor (screenshot2).
With a little practice it is possible to make the two look very similar and soon the eye ignores the formatting codes.
regards
ralph
Ralph,
BT mail has "gone down" ..... cannot connect either POP3 or webmail.
If you need to make contact during next few hours, use this forum messaging system.
Meanwhile, we need to concentrate on loading "basics" to the "wiki" (i.e. the information a "newcomer" needs to get started on planning and building his G3 layout) and I am transferring the G3MadeSimple content across (some of the trackwork and kit construction guides are already in place)
The more "esoteric" material (specialist boilers and gas turbines, etc. .... we don't want to frighten off potential converts with over-complication) can be added later, assuming I don't run out of allocated disk storage.
Regards,
John.
John,
Don't worry I am being a good boy and just loading tables at the moment. I am on duty this weekend so it will be doing nothing but twiddling until Monday. One of the things I have noticed that is a slight problem is that my German layout keyboard lacks some of the formatting commands so some of the editing has had to be "inspired" -but I think it looks OK!
regards
ralph
Ralph,
I have taken a quick squint at the tables and they look fine to me....keep up the good work!
There are still a few general page/format/site layout issues that i wish to tweak but there are so many options offered, that it needs a clear head before editing the config files.
Regards,
John.
John,
I am beginning to need a simple TAB setting to load tables! Although the PIPE symbol is not on my kbd I can obtain it by entering the ASCII code or using the special characters plugin....
regards
ralph
Ralph,
Not sure if this helps but you can set table attributes (i.e. preformat a table) without using the "pipe" key.
I have set up a dummy example in the "sandbox" and the link to the full "table directives" instructions is at http://gauge3.info/wiki/index.php?n=PmWiki.TableDirectives
By typing out the basic attributes you require for a particular table, then using copy and paste to complete the lines of code, it is quite quick to pre-format an entire table.
You then can type in the data against each line of code.
As I said, not sure if this helps with your keyboard difficulty but it is the best I can offer.
Regards,
John.
Slowly by surely we are getting the data down. At the moment there is only me able to key in, but I hope for company as it is getting rather lonely... I also feel that the content could be getting very one sided and needs other viewpoints on subjects to balance it out.
Regards
Ralph
Don't worry Ralph, I have plenty of viewpoints that come from a very different angle to yours! ????
I'm still not clear on what sort of things are being sought. Is it the sort of detailed and dry "how to do it" rather than the "easy reading" stuff generally populating the newsletter? ????
Regards, Tim
Tim,
There is a mix of topics aimed at "easing" a newcomer into Gauge 3.
Some of the material is mine (imported from G3MadeSimple.org.uk plus new material I have written) and I have other material (some written for the Newsletter but never published).
Ralph's material is different in "style" to mine and everything will need an editor to check it before the pages are published.
I am struggling at present with too many G3 projects (including Monkton Priors, which is only the tip of the iceberg) and the time I am able to devote to this new project is severely limited.
Additional authors, as well as editors, are required.
If you wish to become involved now, I can issue a username and password?
Regards,
John.
Tim,
Style and viewpoints on all subjects relating to G3 are required. My style is more verbal stream i.e. As if I were speaking to you. Yes your viewpoint will be very different to mine and I welcome it! I have been plugging in data tables, but you should find it easier with your English kbd.
AndyB,
You wanted to help so apply here!
Regards
Ralph
[quote author=John Candy link=topic=1983.msg12595#msg12595 date=1498770522
Additional authors, as well as editors, are required.
If you wish to become involved now, I can issue a username and password?
Regards,
John.
[/quote]
John, I am sure I can provide some editing support, but currently not contributions.
Regards, Tim
Tim,
Thank you, editors are urgently required....Ralph and I are using every spare moment (of which I have very few) filling the site with content but it all needs editing/checking for accuracy before the results can be unveiled.
Am just about to go out now but will email you with login details, etc. later in the day.
Regards,
John.
This extensive new site, which will answer all the questions a beginner in Gauge 3 is likely to be asking him or her self, is very much advanced and has a huge amount of content. It commences with making decisions on whether G3 is the right path for you, through planning and constructing the line, right up to the dizzy heights of building your own live steamer!
There is a lot of technical detail, as well as "plain English" advice on the whole range of challenges which face a constructor, to ease your path through the G3 experience.
The majority of the material is already in place on the web pages (protected by password until ready for publication) and currently is being edited and organised into a system of "pathways" to help a newcomer find his/her way through the jungle.
The application used to set up this encyclopedia enables searches to be conducted, as well as the use of a comprehensive list of contents and the aforementioned "pathways".
There is a team of just three working on this and, with holidays and work intervening, it is not a quick process.
Anticipated launch date of "Phase 1" is mid to late September, with continuing expansion thereafter.
More volunteers for editing duties will speed up the process!
John Candy