Can anyone help please?
Were wooden underframes, the bits underneath and not normally seen, painted in any way or left natural? Specifically, if it makes any difference, during the late Victorian/ Edwardian periods. I assume they were given some kind of protective finish to delay rot but don't think I've seen it confirmed anywhere. And if so, what colour?
Thank you very much.
Jamie
I've only been intimate with one wooden underframe - a carriage from the late 1890s. All I can say is that 90 years later there was no sign of anything flaking off and no sign of any colour, just layer upon layer of filth!
But the steel parts of the same underframe were painted, as I guess you'd expect.
"Pirate Ian" has worked on old carriages too and may have a view.
Mike
The LBSC wagons were painted with black frame paint in LBSC days. When the wagons passed into Southern stock the norm was to paint the frames the same colour as the main body colour. At least that is how it was on the IOW. Other companies and regions may well differ.
Mark
Mike, thank you. Likewise, my limited personal experience of old stock suggested untreated wood. But was it painted originally I wonder? Thinking about it, the inside faces of open wagons etc weren't so maybe they didn't bother with the hidden bits underneath. On the other hand, a painted surface inside a wagon wouldn't last five minutes so perhaps the same logic didn't apply. Hmm.
Mark, thank you- was that under the underframe as it were, not just the bits on public view?
Jamie
Jamie,
The painted areas inside a wagon were probably pine. The main frame members were almost certainly Oak.
The one vehicle I mentioned has a composite frame - steel solebars and headstocks but Oak central longitudinal members - and those are the ones I was referring to. In theory they don't get wet and suffer no wear. I have no knowledge of other vehicles, nor of wagons.
Mike
Unfortunately I shall not be down at Didcot for a few weeks, but will ring my Gaffer there on the subject. Most C & W stock there is on metal underframes, but there are to my knowledge there are two open on one rectagular tank wagons on wooden underframes. These I assume will be oak. The wood of exposed body frames of wooden carriages was 'hardwood' looks like an ashen grey; see if you can see or get pictures of old whiskey barrels for some correlation of colours.
Many of my own G3 wagons have full dummy underframe timbering, even Mike Williams resin ones! I usually spray them primer gray along with the rest of the vehicle as the fresh cut soft wood would not look right to a 'wagon gricer'like me.
One the other hand I could just 'turn a (my) blind eye to it!!!
Ian the Gauge '3' Pirate
Mike and Ian, thank you both. I can see that the underframe main members would perhaps not need finishing- made of oak and protected underneath from the weather. So a faded, stained timber finish in that case. I wonder whether the same could be said for the underside of deal/ pine floor planking or whether that was protected in some way.
It would be nice to get something definitive from your Gaffer, Ian, before I paint my coach underframes. (Mind you, got to finish them yet).
Thank you very much,
Jamie
Jamie,
Again I can only refer to three LNWR carriages I've worked on and none of those had any paint on the underside of the floor. One of them - an 1870s 27ft 6in Third, had been a grounded body for many decades and still had splash marks from the wheels. Since these particular carriages were built as 4-wheelers and 6-wheelers this proved which this particular one was.
It would be nice to have confirmation of other railways, or perhaps more modern stock since I've only worked on pre-1900 stock.
Mike
P.S.
A gauge 3 model with sufficient detail to see the colour of the underside of the floor should be quite spectacular!
Thanks Mike
Jamie
PS I know, I know. Utterly irrelevant I suppose but it keeps me happy.
P.S. and long may you continue!
We need modellers to push the boundaries.
Mike
Hah, I wouldn't claim that deciding to scribe a few floorboards pushes many boundaries, although it may be testing the line where reasonable judgement becomes a bit obsessive! Or daft. As you suggest, no- one will see them.
I was going to say you should see the compartment hat racks etched to the original works drawings- but you can't see those either with the roof on.
All good fun though.
Jamie