G3 Forum

Diesels, Electrics & All Things "Modern Image" => EMU / DMU => Topic started by: John Candy on Mar 20 2014 11:02

Title: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Candy on Mar 20 2014 11:02
I have a hankering to add an emu (or two) to my collection and there are several which I particularly like.

Although brought up on the Southern (LSWR) and travelled extensively on their emu stock, it is other lines in which I have a greater interest.

In particular, LNWR Oerliken stock, LPTB surface (ex-District and Metropolitan) stock, Mersey Railway and even LPTB/LER "Standard" tube stock!

Anyone else have similar wish for such things and interested in participating in a project?

John
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: Geoff Nicholls on Mar 20 2014 19:40
that would be tempting, but I've got too much on the workbench at present. if I were, it would be the flat sided district line stock, they appear to have run some 2 car and even single car trains. I'd certainly be interested in seeing how you built the bogies and where you put the batteries.
Tim freeze has built a pannier in LPTB colours, perhaps he'd be interested.
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: Peaky 556 on Mar 20 2014 20:52
John
Maybe Mark can be persuaded to add a Smallbrook Junction module to Blackgang to allow interchange with 1923 Standard tube stock!
 ;) Tim
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Candy on Mar 20 2014 21:06
Geoff,
Plan "A" would be to spread out the power cells under the longitudinal seats (with a 4-car train there should be room to conceal enough) : Plan "B" go prototypical and power via the third and fourth rails!

Tim,
That's a thought!
I went to school by train from Raynes Park in the 1960s and remember seeing the withdrawn and rather tatty looking "Standard" tube stock (still in faded red livery) stored in the goods yard on the "up" side at the London end of Wimbledon station in the mid-60's, presumably en-route to Eastleigh for conversion.

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: 454 on Mar 20 2014 21:14
Thinking away from Metropolis:
1) How about the Grimsby & immingham Electric Railway of the GCR? It ran on reserved tracks & would sit beautifully in a dock scenario with tight curves & dock tanks etc. O/H equipment quite minimalistic. Period-wise covers pre-grouping to Beeching so could appeal to the Historic railway branch of the G3S as it's not too modern. However, a long bogie car is preserved at the Crich Tramway Village in Derbyshire finished in BR green with an early BR lion emblem on the side.

2) Tube train convoys could be seen being hauled through Chesterfield on the Midland main line en route to scrapping from time to time if I am not mistaken.

Dave
454
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Candy on Mar 20 2014 21:34
Last time I was at Crich, I took several photos of the Immingham car and bought a book on the Grimsby & Immingham line.

Cannot lay my hands on the book at the moment but it does have drawings of the cars (including the ex-Gateshead cars brought in to supplement the original fleet).

I was considering adding a tramway to my line but, on reflection, thought the overhead lines would be very susceptible to damage by birds, cats and squirrels!

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: 454 on Mar 20 2014 21:59
John
My catenary has been in my garden for over 2 years in it's present format & we have cats, birds & squirrels & foxes visiting. The catenary has to date been totally unaffected. No excuses John, add your tramway.

Cheers

Dave
454
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Candy on Mar 21 2014 09:28
Dave,

Your catenary, I suspect, is raised well above the ground.

Mine would be at or near ground level and herons, sparring pheasants and even the occasional muntjac deer would make short work of demolishing it!

I am even hesitant about leaving signals and buildings outside.

I think I'll stick to 3rd/4th rail if I go with emus.

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: 454 on Mar 21 2014 09:53
Gosh John I did not realise you were making a railway in a safari park!

Alas my catenary is of LGB design clipped to LGB 45mm track at ground level up & around my rockery powering my rack & pinion railway.

LGB trackage was always marketed by an elephant walking on it. Albeit without catenary fitted.

Bet you ain't got any elephants John?

I really am looking forward to your first open day.

Cheers
Dave
454



Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: 492 on Mar 21 2014 10:11
EMU's

I've always had a liking for Southern Railway EMU's, and London Transport stock. I was brought up in Dorking, my local station was Boxhill and Burford Bridge, so I was lucky enough to experience most types of Southern Electric stock, (as well as enjoying the pre-grouping locomotives and birdcage sets on the nearby SER line through Dorking).

I am having a 2HAL built for me by Peter Rogers, which should be ready in the near future. Peter also built the 2BIL which appears in some of our G3 publicity.

When I get my track finished, I intend to build some wooden bodied carriages and, if suitable motor bogies are available, an EMU. (I once made a 3 set of a Maunsell style Petrol Electric Unit, a type that should have been produced for the L & B Railway.)

Robert. 492
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Branch on Jun 13 2019 12:39
I have recently been busy building District Railway F and G stock examples.  I have built the bogies using Slater's spoked wheels, with motors and gears from Technobots.  These all fit neatly below the car floor, and within the bogie frame envelope.  The remaining space below the floor will take up to 10AA cells, a small esc, radio receiver,
 and four servos to work the doors.  The wheelbase of the bogies is 7ft 10in .

To model tube stock would be more of a challenge, as the clearance below the floor would be around 25mm, and I believe the wheels protruded into the under-seat area.  probably do-able, but I'm not trying until the current job is complete!

John Branch
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: Peaky 556 on Jun 13 2019 13:45
Sounds to be a wonderfully well packaged underfloor John! I look forward very much to seeing it in action.
 What would be the wheelbase and tyre diameter for the tube stock?  Reason for asking is I’m wondering if you could get away with an internally geared small MFA motor with a small diameter (eg 1:1) rubber belt/pulley drive to the axle(s). As you are both a gearbox and sliding door specialist I’m sure you will do it!
Regards, Tim
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Branch on Jun 14 2019 17:46
Tim,
Typical wheel tyre dia is around 2'31/2" to 2'7", wb around 6' 2 1/2" bogie total length 11' 5 1/2".  Top of floor from top of rail 2' 5 3/4".  Not a lot of room for suspension movement.  Wheels definitely protrude thro' floor.

Interestingly, I got this data as a result of someone making a FOI request-see below,


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/various_tube_stock_technical_dra

Cheers, John
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Candy on Jun 14 2019 18:31
That is a useful set of drawings.
One of the most interesting "tube" units I saw was from a bridge over the throat of Morden Depot in the late 1950's.
What caught my eye was the fact that it was painted a shade of brown similar to LNER carriage paint. It was a set of very old stock in "departmental" use. I have since seen photos of a similar (if not the same) train in a scrap yard and it was 1919 Cammell Laird stock for the Bakerloo Line, latterly used as an "instructional" train.

John.
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Branch on Sep 02 2019 15:38
Before I go too far down the design path on a new project, I hope someone will advise me on the availability of some wheels.  I shall need 16 off solid disc wheels and 8 axles to G3 normal standards and profile.  The prototype diameter of the wheels is 788 mm, which works out to around 35mm.  I cannot find any ready made wheels of this size from "trade" sources, and I lack the skill to make them myself.  Material does not have to be special- mild steel or aluminium will suffice.

All and any suggestions would be much appreciated.

John Branch
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: LankyTank on Sep 02 2019 15:58
John

An enquiry to Peartree Engineering a.k.a Model Railway Parts on either 01379 608000 or info@modelrailwayparts.com might bear fruit (sorry, no pun intended..... oh, go on then....)

www.modelrailwayparts.com/


HTH
Barry
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Branch on Sep 02 2019 16:46
Thanks, Barry, I'll let you know.

John
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: IanT on Sep 02 2019 23:04
Hi John,

Re: my recent post about cast iron pulleys...

"They are just under 44mm in total diameter with a thickness of 10mm. I think (for use in G3) the maximum scale tread possible would be about 2ft 8" (bottom of pulley groove is 37mm) so you could probably get a turned tread of 36mm, one side of the pulley wall acting as a flange. So not big enough for standard gauge wagon wheels...."

So that might be a possible source of materials, maybe you just need someone (Walsall?) to machine them for you.

Regards,

IanT
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Branch on Nov 22 2019 13:05
Not sure whether to post here or on the more recent thread on choice of motors, but as my latest project is for power bogies for LT 1938 tube stock, I thought this was the best place.  Photo attached is first mock up of the closest I have yet come to an axle hung design.  It uses a pair of unidentified , but identical, motors salvaged from the wreckage of a Canon inkjet printer. Subjectively, it seems to deliver enough ooomph to do what I want, although it will be a few months yet before this is demonstrable.  As in the prototype there will be one motor per bogie, thus 2 per car.  My hope is that there will be enough power to haul a dummy motor car ( or even 2 trailers) to make a train of it.  I have no idea what the rated power/voltage of the motors are, but as some probing with a meter before final destruction of the printer revealed, the power supply seemed to deliver +12v-0--12v.
Next milestone is a running bogie, will keep you posted

John

(https://i.ibb.co/Z6Bh55R/DSC04192.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z6Bh55R)

(https://i.ibb.co/Z6Bh55R/DSC04192.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z6Bh55R)
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Branch on Mar 17 2020 10:19
Further to my previous posts, the attached photos show one complete-ish and one bare bogie for the 1938 stock motor car.  I have most of the MEL-cut parts for two bodies and another set of bogies, so that answers the question about what I will be doing during the "Great Isolation of 2020"

John

John
(https://i.ibb.co/QcMKfm2/DSC04315.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QcMKfm2)

(https://i.ibb.co/7zmWspf/DSC04316.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7zmWspf)
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: John Branch on Aug 18 2020 17:03
Since March (can it really have been that long ago?), I have been through that process that a lot of us have experienced, from concept to reality.  It is never until the end that we discover whether it was all worth while.  I am nearly there-probably a month or 2 away-and have something to show for it..  I have a running 38 tube stock driving motor car, and it is quiet, smooth and fast.  It needs a lot of finishing work and something to pull.  The something will be an identical car sans motors.  The reason I went so far with the first one was to assess if it had the strength to pull a dummy.  It does, and so the dummy is coming along.  The photos are not quite up-to-date, as I am still working on getting the roof to fit before it is revealed to the membership.
John


(https://i.ibb.co/475Ys9j/DSC04337.jpg) (https://ibb.co/475Ys9j)

(https://i.ibb.co/MZRWsvd/DSC04321.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MZRWsvd)
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: IanT on Aug 18 2020 18:09
Looking good John!   :)

Regards,

IanT
Title: Re: Anyone for the "Tube"?
Post by: Traininvain on Aug 18 2020 19:30
Looking brilliant!

Ever since I saw the large scale model tube train shuttling up and down above the main gallery at the London Transport Museum I've fancied one of these.

Fantastic!

Ian