Hi all,
I'll start by saying I know nothing of wagons or trucks, troublesome or otherwise!
Below is a pic of a USATC bogie, which I think dates from WW2, for which I've had an enquiry. I have a feeling that some modern trucks use one rather similar in appearance, and I'm sure I have seen such an image on this forum. My questions are...
* Is there a modern equivalent looking much the same, and if so what is the wheelbase?
* Who might be able to supply such a thing?
Many thanks,
Tim
(https://i.ibb.co/MCGvMnW/8-EF07-CA4-0028-4434-BD8-C-C7-F61-F80-FA70.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MCGvMnW)
Looks very much like a Bettendorf truck.
Somewhere I have drawings and articles on the USATC wagons from WW2.
When I have a moment to spare, I will see what I can find out.
Regards,
John.
John, thank you. If I have to make them then any drawings and photos would be superb, but if someone on this forum or in the society already makes them, or something very similar with a wheelbase of around 1695mm, then I'm not going to "reinvent the wheel"
Regards, Tim
50 Ton Bettendorf 5' 6" Truck Kits $125
https://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/CMEProductsTrucks.html
Tim,
Maybe you remembered seeing this thread: http://g3forum.org.uk/index.php/topic,858.msg4534.html#msg4534 (http://g3forum.org.uk/index.php/topic,858.msg4534.html#msg4534)?
1695mm is around 5'6" in old money...
I have some drawings for a riveted plate frame bogie with 5'6" w/b, and a fabricated frame (like Keith's) with 6' w/b.
I'll see if I can find anything on cast frame examples, if that's what is really wanted.
Andy
Quote50 Ton Bettendorf 5' 6" Truck Kits $125
https://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/CMEProductsTrucks.html
Are these Gauge 3?
Description appears to suggest they may be "F Scale 1:20.32
John.
A bit more looking - the nearest modern bogie is probably the TF25; has a much flatter top and roller bearings.
The USATC is more like a cast version of the fabricated 'diamond frame' bogie that was around in per-grouping days.
Andy
See Paul Bartletts page on bogie designs https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bogies
Wallsall do the plate frame for ICI Wagons and the Modernish Gloucester Bogie Frame
(https://i.ibb.co/xhcPN4d/20180902-110922.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xhcPN4d)
https://www.walsallmodelindustries.co.uk/product.php/gloucester_bogie_frames/?k=:::6820622
Quote from: John Candy on Jun 10 2019 12:48
Are these Gauge 3?
Description appears to suggest they may be "F Scale 1:20.32
John.
No - but all it takes is for Tim to contact them and get a set printed in G3 scale - they are CAD designed and can be printed in any scale.
Thanks all for the rapid and constructive replies! Also for correctly identifying the wheelbase would have been in imperial units (doh!).
Here's another view of the bogie frame required, so the Kippo Models 'centre of resin casting expertise' and I will think around ways of reproducing them!
(https://i.ibb.co/tB557PB/44673849-65-FC-4196-903-A-ECCE3-B26-C4-C3.png) (https://ibb.co/tB557PB)
Andy,
That model of Keith's seems to have plate frames and leaf springs, not quite the open cast frame design of the USATC.
Doddy,
Cumberland's don't seem to have quite the same model, and if I was paying that that price I would want it to be exactly right! The Andrews 50 ton design seems the nearest.
Best regards,
Tim
Tim
I believe that the National 2.5in Gauge Association do scale lost wax brass castings for the Andrews pattern freight bogies which are also featured on the Cumberland website
Here's the email address: castings@n25ga.org
cheers
Ian
Good spot Ian.
The loco design is here - http://www.n25ga.org/Designs/WD%20Designs/S160/US%20Austerity%20by%20LBSC.htm (http://www.n25ga.org/Designs/WD%20Designs/S160/US%20Austerity%20by%20LBSC.htm)
Castings page is here: http://www.n25ga.org/Shop/Castings/Cylinder%20Castings.htm (http://www.n25ga.org/Shop/Castings/Cylinder%20Castings.htm)
Casting references US1 or possibly FA1.
Andy
Quote from: Peaky 556 on Jun 10 2019 14:06I will think around ways of reproducing them!
Cumberlands
50 Ton USRA Andrews Brass sideframes cut by Wire FDM might help with the design assessment.
(https://i.ibb.co/BNcCLZH/Andrews-Side-Frame-Patterns-crop.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BNcCLZH)
The bogie in the first post appears to be the same as that fitted to the tenders of the S160 USATC locos, in which case it should be the same as the N2.5GA offering.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USATC_S160_Class#/media/File:USATC-5740_locomotive.jpg
Here is another USATC wagon (in SNCF service) with those bogies.
https://gibitrains.pagesperso-orange.fr/train/proto/simotra-citerne-tc.jpg
John.
Thanks all. Interesting there are so many uses of this diamond bogie; it might increase the potential market!
Meanwhile, and recognising that whilst the N2.5G castings are probably very good, and strong in gunmetal, they are also relatively expensive. The design for plastic moulding has progressed as below, all credit to Eddie at Kippo Models:
(https://i.ibb.co/0Mr1zd7/A2361142-1232-467-F-AD22-5-D3-ED0351-F7-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0Mr1zd7)
The intention is to resin mould these as decorative side-frames, and fasten to a one-piece rigid steel stretcher-cum-backplate. Axles would run in plain brass bushes, and I'm thinking that with such a short wheelbase, dedicated suspension won't be necessary but instead provided by a bit of bogie rock.
If anyone would like to be kept in the loop on progress then please PM.
Best regards,
Tim
Quote from: Peaky 556 on Jun 11 2019 10:21Interesting there are so many uses of this diamond bogie; it might increase the potential market!
Yup! Great to see yourself and Kippo break into the US scene.
The USRA specified 3 different varriations of the same Andrews design for all its 100,000 freight cars differing in its weigh capacity. In its specifications the USRA usually permitted at least three alternative designs for many of the compentents, with one being recommended. In practice most of the builders used the same designs.
- 40 Ton Double Sheathed Box Car
- 50 Ton Single Sheathed Box Car, Composite Gondola, Twin Steel Hopper
- 70 Ton Wood Floor Gondola
Five Manufacturers were used for building the bolsters and side frame:
- American Steel Foundries
- Buckeye Steel Castings
- Scullin Steel Company
- Gould Coupler Co
- Bettendorf Co
USRA Drawing numbers for the various truck components are . . .
(https://i.ibb.co/hB3dJbf/Drawing-numbers-for-USRA-standard-cars-Railway-Review-1919.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hB3dJbf)
Well here is the prototype build of the kits I'm producing for a guy on the continent. They have 3' wheels and I think they suit wagons of around 90 ton laden weight. The steelwork has been simply sprayed with satin black, but the side mouldings are unfinished, exactly as they came off the printer at Kippo.
Tim
(https://i.ibb.co/S784Ltp/204-B8-CC8-ED0-C-4295-B22-A-07931-FD34-F35.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S784Ltp)
(https://i.ibb.co/y0Y0Wmz/894-D3-FF2-B32-D-4-C3-E-92-FE-FB6-F1-DBFC64-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y0Y0Wmz)
They really look the part, great job.
One question-I am looking for some 2'7" plain disc wheels, and no manufacturer I have contacted seems to makes them- I would probably need 16 to 32 wheels and (8 to 16 axles), would it be worth going the commissioning route, and who with, Slaters?
Any advice welcomed.
I bought some Brandbright bogie arch-frame kits for (probably) g-scale in cast white metal. I sold them long ago, but I guess that they would be too small for G3 Cheap, though, £8 a pair I recall!
John
Could you get away with Gauge 1 profile John? If so Slaters do some 3ft 7in disc wheels which would be an easy way out. If you want to have some made and are not in a hurry I would recommend Malcolm at http://www.modelrailwayparts.com/ He is competitive and an excellent engineer but as more people find him so his waiting times are increasing. I believe Roy Horrocks has a friend in Wales who has made batches of very nice G3 coach wheels in the past, so he might also quote for the job.
Mike
Thanks for that Idea , Mike. Looking at the G1 and G3 standards, the 2 dimensions that may be relevant are wheel width and flange depth. As my track is essentially point-free and straight (testing only), it may well be worth a punt to try some G1 coach wheels. I did look at Mark Wood's site re a form tool (I was feeling brave, not knowing if my little Unimat could handle it), and it remains a possibility to use one to make my own from bar. I think on balance that I will buy 2 G1 sets from Slater's, and treat the project as a "proof of concept before committing to any more.
John