Electric loco

[John Candy]

Since this s a "private" board (only visible to G3S members), I have taken the liberty of scanning two photos from the book.
The first is of GW 1303 (ex-TVR 172) propelling a train on the Penarth branch ..... if you look closely, you can make out the untidy arrangement of cables attached to the chimney which was the TVR method of auto-train control .... replaced by the GWR system which made these locos redundant (photo attributed to H.T.Hobbs).

The second photo shows 174 dressed up to haul a Royal Train in 1912  (photo attributed to C. Batstone).

John.

[MikeWilliams]

So John, be honest, having looked into it and found its quite accurate, you really rather fancy it now don't you?  But maybe at 25% of the asking price!

[John Candy]

Well, I can now see some virtue in it and a good "going over" and a lick of GW green would make it more attractive!

If it were  not a purely South Wales loco .... I doubt they ever left the area, even for major work, since they were never "Swindonised" with cone boiler and all the GW trimmings..... I might be tempted but not at anywhere remotely close to the "pie-in-the-sky" price being asked.

I suspect it was found in a loft (or shed) as part of a house clearance by a "chancer" who paid little or nothing for it.

Regards,
John.

[Spitfire2865]

I see his description now states he is blocking any "time wasters" who offer below his listed price.
Sorry your pile of rust isnt worth a tenth of what your inflated ego said it was. What a fool.
Also, did they ever supply photos of the 3 wagons supposedly with it?

[MikeWilliams]

Two of the wagons are lettered "W P".  This is a (very!) long shot, but at one time builders often put their own initials onto the models they made and there was a W Pringle building Gauge 3 around the first war period.  He scratch built carriages, so probably wagons also.

One of historic experts in the Society usually reads this forum and sends me notes, but so far there has been nothing from David!

Mike

[John Candy]

Forever the optimist....... still asking £4500!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ANTIQUE-LOCOMOTIVE-STEAM-TANK-ENGINE-G3-2-5-GAUGE-ELECTRIC-3-RAIL-GERMAN/124085560704?hash=item1ce4136580:g:wkcAAOSwOuxc7RVp

[cabbage]

He is allowed to ask! We can all ask for a few gold bricks to decorate the bank account, but we all know it will never happen...

At least the gold coins at the sweet shop have chocolate in them!!!

Regards

Ralph

[MikeWilliams]

Such a shame.  If this went to the right home and was painted in full TVR livery it would be really nice.  If only we had a prominent society member in south wales with an interest in old G3 and somewhere to run it ... oh, we do!  Fingers crossed.

Mike

[MikeWilliams]

Here's another picture of the real thing

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Taff-Vale-Railway-Engine-At-Cardiff-Docks-c1890s-Photo/293476373445?hash=item44548e13c5:g:zE0AAOSwwD1eRwHG

Its nice!  But not £4500 nice.

Mike

[MikeWilliams]

Our resident historian David White has identified the three wagons being sold with the engine.  He says:

The WP wagons have a most interesting story.  Basically they came from a working model colliery that was built from the early 1900's by a William Phelps.  The working colliery took him and his wife 20 odd years to build, was  14' 6" x 8' 6" x 8' tall.  It culminated in being exhibited in the British Empire Exhibition of 1923 and even had figures that walked!  Is fully described in the ME of Jan 1925.

Unfortunately my volumes of Model Engineer don't come as recent as 1925, but perhaps somebody on here has access and can provide more details?

And David and I both think the 3-rail engine probably did not come from the same source.

Mike

[MikeWilliams]

Further to the above, a quick Google broight up an engine from the same colliery:

http://www.gcrauctions.com/sale262/lot163.html

A 3½" gauge live steam model, 'Dunalastair III' 4-4-0 locomotive and eight wheeled tender in Caledonian livery, lined white/black with many brass details. Entirely scratchbuilt by Mr William Phelps of Treherbert - using the found materials of steel, copper and brass. Oil fired watertube boiler with twin inside cylinders, substantial brass eccentrics and connecting rods driving cast brass wheels, detailed backhead and cab with operating doors and other refinements. The coal tender with working brakes, water tank and hand pump, separate, removable oil tank in its own fitted rear compartment, both have brass feed tubes atop tender. This is a superb model that is in need of some work if operation is required, loco burner is missing, fuel and water connections are partly missing, as is the smokebox door handle and lock wheel, lock shaft is there. The model comes with a fair amount of original paperwork, posters and photographs describing the build, exhibiting and exploits of Mr & Mrs Phelps. This loco was part of an extensive, fully equipped working model colliery, with pit-head gear with electric winding engine, associated buildings and other foundry shops, all working and electrically lit, constructed by Mr Phelps (who was employed by the Great Western Railway Company) over a fifteen to twenty year period. Other model locomotives were built to operate on this large model which was 17 ft. by 7ft.6", they were electrically operated also. The whole model colliery, with miners' vil £3000-5000

Why a south Wales colliery should have a Caledonian engine is a mystery to me and also the engine is 3 1/2in gauge.  Curious.

Mike

[John Baguley]

Mike,

I've just had a look at the Model Engineer article (I have a nearly complete collection) and it certainly is a very extensive description. There are a number of photos that clearly show the two wagons that were on Ebay along with a 0-4-0 Peckett saddle tank loco. There is a photo of what I would say is almost certainly that 4-4-2 locomotive. It's difficult to read the number on the tank side but it does look like 172. If it isn't the Ebay loco then it is its twin.

The article also contains a photo of the 'Dunalastair No.3' but it just says that it was built by Mr Phelps at a cost of ' a few shillings'. He made his own patterns and had castings made from them. It was made following a series of articles that appeared in ME volumes 4 and 5. I don't think it was associated with the colliery model despite what the GCR auction says.

Interestingly, the article says that the colliery model was 14' x 8'6" x 8' high. Maybe he extended it later.

John

[MikeWilliams]

Brilliant, thank you John.  So the engine dates from no later than 1923.  It is exceptionally good for that period, which is why I thought it couldn't have been part of the colliery model.  What a shame that it all lasted together until relatively recently, to be broken up and sold off now.

Mike