"Building a Super Detail Model Railway Van" (Metropolitan PBV)

[IanT]

That got your attention didn't it?

Well it happens to be the title of Chapter 8 of "Models in Wood" published by Percival Marshall (Author C.Baker). I can't find a publishing date - but I think it will be just post-war (about 1946).

Anyway - the chapter gives a fairly detailed description of building a Metropolitan Passenger Brake Van in 2 1/2" gauge - and as the book suggests - Mr Baker does it in wood! There are no plans per se - but he does give a fair bit of information about framing side panels etc - and it even has working doors. I was curious to see whether I could find the prototype - and sure enough it appears to be a very close model of the Met four wheel PBV to diagram 123. If you have it there is a drawing on page 34 of 'Historic Carriage Drawings - Vol 3' (Peter Tatlow).

So - you see - there's all sorts of good old G3 stuff out there in those second hand book shops (this one was found on the IoW).

[John Candy]

Well Ian, yes, it did grab my attention when the notification message with the posting header arrived in my email!

I immediately thought, 'I wonder who has built that...I will have to ask them to turn it into a Newsletter article'.
I did rather wonder who would have chosen the Met. as a prototype but perhaps it was the challenge of  all those louvres.

Imagine my disappointment when I read the post!

I imagine a drawing could be available via the LT Museum (assuming that museum still exists...although it may no longer be at Covent Garden....I only ever visited once, that was so long ago it was called the British Transport Museum and was on the Clapham Bus Garage site) or perhaps an enquiry to Acton Works.

Perhaps someone will take up the challenge but not me : I'm afraid the Met. is not my 'cup of tea' although I have long had a 'soft spot' for the Metro-Vick 'Growler' BO-BO locos especially after travelling behind one in September 1961 on the London Transport 'Last Day of Steam' special from Baker Street to Rickmansworth and then on to Amersham behind a 'Fairburn' 2-6-4T. I imagine all those brand new shiny 'A60' class aluminium emu's which were waiting in the sidings at Amersham to take over the next day have themselves now gone).

Better stop now...all this talk of the 1960's is making me feel even older!

John.

[Andy B]

Is 60+ years enough for it to be out of copyright, and if so can a scan of the chapter be posted in the members area of the G3 site?

The techniques ought to be applicable for panelled stock from any company. I'd be interested to see how they differ from David Jenkinsons G0 & G1 panelled coached from plasticard (Carriage Modelling made Easy - Wild Swan Pubs, 1996).

I've been thinking about getting the panelling laser-cut in thin ply / veneer for some MR coaches, but haven't got as far as producing the CAD drawing yet to get a quote.

Andy

[John Candy]

In very general terms, UK copyright expires 70 years after the death of the author.

John.

[cabbage]

I would be interested in knowing just how he puts the carriage together... I have a few friends who have built carriages -but using modern techniques and "substances"!!! As I am somewhat of a traditionalist and I am trying to build a railway as Henry Greenly would have known it. What are the techniques used?

When it comes time for me to build my two carriages I will opt of the slotted assembly technique from the HG books, while the other carriages that I have built have been plywood tubes suitably modified.

Maybe it is time to trawl the book shops again?

regards

ralph

[454]

Would like to draw your attention to my rough & ready rapid coach construction technique adopted by me from using GRS plastic coach side modules, roof moulding, Plasticard and miscellaneous bits & pieces with Brandbright axlebox units and wheelsets. Displayed in the Forum gallery under work in progress. The purists will fall off their chairs in horror, but it keeps lil old me happy for hours as they trundle up and down my terminus to fiddle yard loft layout. No particular period, region, railway company. Love to hear your ideas as to what the closest prototype equivalents are. If I use my imagination I can see generic carriage architecture with no specific source. They keep everyone guessing for hours on end.
Have fun being critical.

Cheers
Dave

Link to the Gallery  http://gauge3.org.uk/gallery/

[IanT]

In some ways the approach used is rather like the GRS sections - he made wooden panels that are combined to make up the 'side'. So unlike the Jenkinson method, the side is not one long piece made up of layers. He's taken what I would call a "woodworkers" approach to shaping the sides - I probably need to post the drawing from the chapter to explain.

One other comment. I've seen Ian D put together wagon bodies in a remarkably short time using plasticard and I believe him when he says it is just as quick to build simple carriage bodies with. The end result looks very realistic and is inexpensive.

However, I think one of the 'pleasures' of Gauge '3' is that the size allows you to use materials that would be very hard to make work well in the smaller gauges. I rather like the idea of building a teak carriage from 'real' wood (not teak maybe but some other fine grained hard woods) and this is the general route I will try if I get around to doing it. They will probably be quite heavy, but a good load on the back makes my Atlantic work that bit harder and gives a really good chuff. They won't be Met of course John - I'm thinking Great Northern.     

[John Candy]

Dave,
The 4-wheelers look very much 'the part' and have a 'Brighton' feel about them, although the roof profile and other details are not quite true to prototype. They would certainly look very much at home on a pre-WW2 Isle of Wight line.
I am surprised Ian has not asked you to write an article on their construction.....I would certainly like to add an item as a 'how-to-do-it' download on the website.

John.

[IanT]

Yes Dave - some material to the Editor would be much appreciated and not just the carriages - I'm quite curious about that mention of a 'loft' railway in G3 too!

And for Cabbage - here is the drawing I mentioned. Mr Baker did this work using hand tools, but I imagine a small table router or a dremel fitted with router attachment would do it quicker and easier these days. Note the "turnunder" which is used to strengthen the bottom of the panel where the shaping would normally 'thin' it. Also using this method, you get the grain of the wood running in the right directions as per the prototype.

[IanT]

And the carriage under construction looks like this - almost prototypical..

[cabbage]

Yes. I like the look of that! But -I would do it with hand tools. I do afterall have a complete set of 1920's woodworking tools passed down through the family...

regards

ralph

[MikeWilliams]

Anyone remember the pre-War CCW wooden coaches in 7mm and 4mm?  they used a one-piece side machined to profile and a thin slot right down from the top to below window level, for the glazing.  I never built one, but the design looked good to me.  Not sure how you'd add beading for a panelled coach though.

Mike

[PeterB]

I made a pair of GNR twin artics in 0 gauge using the slotted wood principle.   A friend made them from sycamore.   Beading was the smallest Evergreen plastic strip.   The benefit of this was when the sides were 'teak' stained the plastic went yellow, instant lining.

Best wishes,

Peter

[Andy B]

If you have it there is a drawing on page 34 of 'Historic Carriage Drawings - Vol 3' (Peter Tatlow).

I just got a copy of Vol 2 (LMS & constituents) and Vol 3 (NPCS) from one of the 'cheapo' book shops in Derby - £9.99 each instead of the cover price of £19.95.
You might find similar in your local area.

Andy