Author Topic: Custom built parts in G3  (Read 7966 times)

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Offline bolingbroke

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2013, 06:25:45 PM »
Stupid boy. Meant to suggest a pre-nationalisation not pre grouping prototype ie Stanier coaches.
Sorry.

Offline 454

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2013, 06:44:18 PM »
When you look at the prices of gauge 1 offerings for BR Mk1's they seem to be around £400 each with a minimum order of 4 off from Bowande. The quality looks excellent. However, whilst the potential price for premium quality in Gauge 3 is for many not economic, there are compromises that can be made.

Compromises:-
Crude interiors or no interiors. No working doors on side or end gangways. Fixed non-flexi corridor connections. OK so lets have door handles, hinges, underframe detail, decent bogies as a bare minimum of essential. Basically a budget coach upon which one may add embellishments in an aftermarket that could develop later.

For my choice the standard would be a fully finished painted glazed coach with outside detail to the minimum required standard for economy. This needs defining as beauty often lies in the eyes of the beholder. My eyes will be closest about 12 feet away and the detail merges into the mist when the loco is hauling them at express speed.

My feeling is that most modellers could at a later date fit an interior to a reasonable standard if that is what they want & it keeps the cost down.

I am not prepared to pay a premium to get a museum quality bells & whistles coach set from initial acquisition.

How far should we go to level of fitted detail? What do others think?

Dave
454






Offline John Candy

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2013, 09:37:11 PM »
Let's look at this from the angle of a new entrant to G3.

If he (or she....we do have lady members) is coming from a background of smaller "scale" (i.e. as in P4 or S7) modelling then authenticity will be an objective.

If coming from an LGB/Bachmann garden railway scenario, he is less likely to be worried about authenticity and will have an "anything goes" attitude.

Unless he has bags of cash and has locos custom-built, his most likely source of locos will be GRS kits.

Their kits (past and current) consist of :-

LMS 1F (ex-Midland) 0-6-0 tank
LMS 2F (ex-Midland) 0-6-0 tender
LMS (Fowler) 4F 0-6-0 tender
LMS 3F 0-6-0 tank

LNER Y1 "Sentinel" 0-4-0 shunting loco
LNER Y6 (ex-GER) 0-4-0 Tram engine
LNER N5 (ex-GCR) 0-6-2 tank
LNER (ex-War Dept./Ministry of Supply) Hunslet "austerity" 0-6-0 Saddle tank

GWR 48XX/58XX class 0-4-2 tank
GWR 2021 Class 0-6-0 pannier tank
GWR 1361 & 1392 classes 0-6-0 Saddle tank
GWR 57XX / 8750 class 0-6-0 Pannier tank
GWR "Manor" 78XX class 4-6-0 tender
GWR 2301 class "Dean Goods" 0-6-0 tender.
GWR 45XX 2-6-2 tank

SR (ex-LB&SCR) A1X class 0-6-0 tank
SR (es-L&SWR) O2 class 0-4-4 tank

British Railways Class 08 0-6-0 diesel electric shunter

Peckett Industrial shunter 0-4-0 saddle tank

Their next release is set to be the SR (ex-SE&CR) N class 2-6-0 tender loco, while under development they have a GWR 28XX class 2-8-0 tender (a heavy freight loco), LNER L1 2-6-4 tank and BR (LNER designed) K1 2-6-0 tender loco.

Let's look at the "suitable" carriages available for each (and I don't believe that any of the above would regularly have hauled BR mark 1 corridor carriages except perhaps as empty stock or on preserved railways).

For the LMS there is almost no 20th century passenger stock (just a 6-wheel Stanier passenger brake van kit) plus a couple of L&NWR kits of Victorian origin and the LMS was by far the largest pre-nationalisation railway!

For the LNER, there are the "Gresley" non-corridor kits (i.e. suburban/local stock) for the N5 plus a tramcar from the Wisbech & Upwell Tramway!

For the GWR there is an autocoach which would not look out of place behind any of the GWR tank locos, except the saddle tanks of 1361/1392 classes).
The GWR "B" set would suit any of the GWR locos with the exceptions of the 1361/1392/28XX classes.
GRS have GWR "Collett" corridor stock on the agenda which fills the gap in GWR stock.

For the Southern, there are a couple of L&SWR suburban coaches.

So the GWR is currently by far the best catered for in terms of coaches and all of the types mentioned would have remained in service until at least the late 1950s.

The LNER lacks gangwayed/corridor stock but currently GRS do not produce a loco requiring such stock.

The LMS lacks both non-corridor and gangwayed corridor stock but the loco kits are principally freight classes but all would have seen use on local/branch line passenger services, while the 4F was widely used on long distance excursion traffic (hauling long trains of gangwayed/corridor stock).
In my view, the most useful LMS stock (in contect of currently available loco kits) would be a 3-car "Inter-District" set.
These consisted of a non-gangwayed lavatory 1st/3rd composite, sandwiched between two non-gangwayed lavatory brake 3rds.

The Southern lacks gangwayed corridor stock (for use behind the forthcoming N1 class) and Maunsell or Bulleid stock would be suitable (preferably Maunsell since it spans a longer period).

Returning to the BR Mark 1 gangwayed stock : These probably have a market in the Kingscale "Britannia" owners but that leaves a lot of other potential customers (particularly newcomers to G3) out in the cold.

Now await a deluge of "rivet-counter" accusations!

John.

My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline 454

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2013, 12:31:16 AM »
John, how could we accuse you of rivet counting? Never.
We need from time to time to be kept on the straight & narrow by sound guidance.

But there are times when ubiquity can be the norm & there is absolutely no escape from it.

The BR Mk1 is ubiquitous on today's preserved railway.

Go on Youtube to the majority of the preserved railways around our kingdom and you will find almost any combination of old loco of almost any vintage pulling for the paying punter guess what? A BR Mk1 coach or two or more. They are the staple diet or rolling stock for most of the preserved railways that probably don't have a nucleus of preserved oddities like (prepared to be shot in flames) Gresley teaks & chocolate & creams & Bullieds. OK so I know where to find a 4 wheel Lancashire Derbyshire & East Coast Railway preserved coach running at Butterley but they have Mk1's bursting at the seams almost in every dark corner at the same time. But you will not find an LD&ECR coach anywhere else in the kingdom. If you know different tell me cos I'd like to search it out.

These BR Mk1's, subject to rescrutiny by others, are the most abundant railway coach on Preserved Railway Britain.

If I want to haul a train of BR Mk1s by a Manchester Ship Canal 0-6-0T then on today's railways you don't have to look very far. Or even a Yorkshire Engine Company 4 coupled diesel ex NCB. Or even double head a L&Y 0-6-0 with an Ivatt 2-6-2T with BR Mk 1's. It happens on this island that we all share with each other. To be seen almost every weekend in 12 inch to 1 foot scale there is a combination to fire the imagination. Thanks to the hard working few who keep these beasts alive for the many.

MY memory extends to the early 80's when I filmed Evening Star 9F being piloted by Hardwicke (LNWR) hauling BR Mk 1's around the Leeds Harrogate York circular route. An odd couple I'm sure you would agree, but true.

Hardwicke in LNWR colours hauled Carnforth to Grange over Sands specials in the 1980's with BR Mk 1's.

Henry Oakley on the KWVR in the 1980's. Even the Stirling 8 foot single!

A Midland 0-6-0T 1F and a Peckett 0-6-0T can be seen at Barrow Hill topping & tailing BR Mk1 coaches on the open day up & down the line working the shuttle in the yard for pleasure of the punters. I know I have been such a punter.

I remember standing on Dony station BR ex LNER territory to witness City of Truro (GWR) double heading with Midland compound 1000 (MR) on a SLS special train.

So I maintain that any of the locos depicted in the GRS list could if they still existed in real life haul the BR Mk1.
They have universal appeal without being too narrowly historic (like the LD&ECR coach which I quoted as an example).

Hope I have boosted interest in BR Mk 1's

Dave ( Coachless but lots of coal trucks)
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Offline 454

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2013, 07:54:05 AM »
How about this for starters:

My wish list is:

BR Mk1 total 4 off they are:

TSO open second
SK 2nd class X 2
BSK brake 2nd.

That should not be too difficult should it?

Dave
454

Offline Traininvain

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2013, 09:15:35 AM »
Just to add my halfpennyworth.

On the subject of BR Mk 1s, a good way forward mey be as follows.

1. John Witts has taken over the work started by Francis Leech a couple of years back that culminated in the CAD for a detailed BR Mk 1 underframe, the parts for the BR 1 bogie, and a number of castings for the door handles, roof vents etc. These parts are top class provided it is possible for John to bend the steel underframe parts up. John has already started work on resin ends for the Mk 1.

2. Francis didn't get so far as the coach body but the original idea was to copy the idea that Mike Williams mentions above (the old Westdale aluminium coach bodies in 0 scale) and which is now used extensively by the G1 people. In short a single piece of aluminium with all the windows laser cut then folded up on a jig to make a coach body which needs the detailing parts and the ends.

Many excellent and highly cost effective carriages have been produced in this way in G1. The fact is that the most difficult work for a G3 version has already been done – the complicated truss underframe that is so characteristic of the Mk 1 coach.

It would also be possible to build an LMS period 3 (flat sided) in the same way using a new underframe.

Ian

Offline John Candy

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2013, 09:30:59 AM »
Dave,

Noted your requirements.

Since the large variety of Mk.1 gangwayed coaches all shared a common underframe 63ft 5ins over headstocks (with the exception of the full brake at 56ft 11ins) the ideal method of batch production would seem to be a complete underframe/ends/roof unit to which various sides can be added to order.

Paul will be able to comment on this but from earlier discussions, I think a major proportion of the cost will be to produce the "tooling" required and obviously the smaller the production run, the greater the proportion of those costs which will be added to each unit produced.
Therefore, the more units ordered, the potential unit cost is reduced.... so more orders are needed.

That then brings us to the question of whether kits are required or "RTR" models.
Obviously, having produced the kit, Paul would be able to finish the models to the purchasers specifications and those specs would dictate the final cost.

John.

 
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline John Candy

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2013, 09:41:16 AM »
Ian,

I contacted John Witts yesterday and he proposes to carry on with his Mk.1 project, regardless of whether or not Paul produces similar models.

LMS period 2 and period 3 (Stanier) coaches are on my radar but there has (so far) been no expression of interest.

I mentioned in an earlier post that a non-gangwayed "inter-district" set might be ideal (bearing in mind the nature of the LMS locomotive kits currently available).

GRS have no plans to introduce a Stanier 5P5F "Black 5" 4-6-0 (I discussed with Michael Adamson at the AGM and he has been deterred by the fact that the Gauge 1 Black 5 model did not sell well) and he seems to be more interested in GWR (it's a case of continuing popularity of the GWR).

Regards,
John.

My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline pline

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Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2013, 10:28:54 AM »
Paul - Have sent you an e-mail with drawing of the pump.


Mike,
I have sent you an email in this regard.
Regards
Paul
Paul Nilanjan
for PLine
Calcutta-700014, India.
URL: www.pline.in

Offline Andy B

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2013, 10:32:47 AM »
Sorry, no interest in BR Mk1's or any LMS coaches for me.

Some MR 6-wheelers, or maybe a couple of MR 48ft bogie coaches, possibly using a resin sectional approach as Jamie Page did with his MSWJR stock.
All some way off yet, unless there is someone like-minded out there who would like to join forces.

Andy

Offline 492

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2013, 01:18:52 PM »

Hi All.
This is very interesting for me as I am currently having a locomotive built for me by Pline.

As far as carriages go, I would be interested in Maunsel or Bulleid carriages.

Useful parts for me would include a (generic) and simple coach bogey of the type with all wheels separately sprung. (I bought such an example at the 2012 AGM, old pre-war stock of some sort. These ride over anything.) I find centre sprung bogies can be unreliable. I would also like nicely made corridor connectors.

Robert.  492

Offline pline

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Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2013, 02:31:22 PM »
Hello Robert,
Nice to hear from you again. Yes your loco is coming up fine, and very soon you would be able to show it to interested G3 forum members.

I really hope to produce more in g3 scale specially in terms of rolling stock. A BR MK1 coach series could be a great starter.
And like John mentioned would like to produce a common rolling chassis, roof and ends that could be used with different body sides and interiors.

Like with the 16mil enthusiasts, who do a lot of home building, and for whom I produce diesel outline power bogies, I can produce similar sprung power bogies in G3 which home builders could use to scratch build diesel outline battery powered locos.

 Regards
Paul Nilanjan
Paul Nilanjan
for PLine
Calcutta-700014, India.
URL: www.pline.in

Offline Technocrat

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2013, 06:52:49 PM »
Paul,

The products on your website look quite good.

Are you interested in making anything suitable for American prototypes? These would have to be shipped to the US.

I am interested in powered axles in Gage 3 that are along similar lines to the Northwest Short line FLEA or Magic Carpet drives. Unless the axle were a steam driver they could probably be pretty universal for most US or British prototypes, I think.

Best Regards
Ted

Offline pline

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Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2013, 12:22:41 PM »
hello Ted,
thanks for the enquiry
sure I would be interested in manufacturing G3 products for the US.
you can write to me directly with your requirements at info@pline.in
Regards
Paul Nilanjan
Paul Nilanjan
for PLine
Calcutta-700014, India.
URL: www.pline.in

Offline Technocrat

Re: Custom built parts in G3
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2013, 07:05:10 PM »
Paul,

I have sent you an email.

Thanks,
ted