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Brass -v- Stainless Steel

Started by John Candy, Jan 05 2015 09:48

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John Candy

Brass -v- Stainless Steel

The photo shows two rail samples which have been left outside to "weather" for more than 6 months.

One is a piece of Cliff Barker stainless code 250 which was twice treated with Cliff's "rail rusting" solution.
The other is a piece of Gauge 3 Society brass code 250 which is untreated and was bright and shiny when placed outside.

The stainless needs painting to make it blend in with its surroundings, while the brass has "toned down" nicely and does not glint in the sun.

I know which I think looks better, certainly when used outdoors.

OK, the running surface of the brass rail may not have the glint of steel associated with a well-used track but even a prototype rail can lose its shine overnight if trains stop running for a few hours.

The "pros" and "cons".

Steel Rail : Running surface looks prototypical with the appearance of a well-used track (perhaps not such an advantage in an array of sidings which would nearly always appear rusted). Sides of rail are bright and shiny but on prototype even newly laid rail appears lightly rusted.
Said to be harder-wearing than brass (particularly on crossings) but is it likely to be of any significance on a lightly used model track?

Brass Rail : Easier to file than steel when making turnouts, etc. and simpler to solder (not that stainless steel is particularly difficult, just needs different temperatures, special flux and solder). In general, more expensive than steel in consequence of copper content.

In consequence of the large quantities of turnouts and other pointwork I need, a proportion of which was bought ready-made from Cliff to cut down track-laying delays, my line has a significant amount of stainless steel rail, which I have ,as far as possible, segregated from the brass sections.
The steel track sticks out like a sore thumb, even from a considerable distance across the garden and will have to be painted in due course.

What are your views?

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

cabbage

John -to be honest it has never bothered me. I use 6ft stainless steel track for long curves as it gives a greater mechanical advantage when bending and a smoother curve. At the moment stainless steel is slightly more expensive than brass -but the cost differences are minor. The "Great North Straight" will be 57 feet of stainless steel and 93 feet of brass. I buy  track work purely on what is available and what is cheapest at the time.

I have points made of brass, steel, or nickel silver -depending on what is to hand at the time. I DO prefer to make frogs from brass rail though -as the silver solder I normally use makes a beautiful looking strong joint with it (SilFlo-40). But as to what the rail that my locos run it -I don't mind.

As to paint, the timbers get a coat of red "all seasons" preservative -but paint the rails???? Forget that!!!

regards

ralph

MikeWilliams

I agree John that outside, brass looks much better than stainless steel.  Indoors is a different matter as there is less natural tarnishing and you tend to look at the rail closer to.

And I don't like the way that Cliff's web site makes an unkind comparison with new metal - a direct competitive comparison between his and the society, even though without the Society he would almost certainly have never entered Gauge 3 at all.  Don't misunderstand, I like Cliff, but think that is unnecessary.

Mike

454

Brass v Stainless Steel?

Partially agree with Ralph apart from the fact that I find brass easier to work. Easier to cut & file.
Stainless steel makes better cutlery.
Horses for courses.

Painting track? That is crazy. I thought only the indoor 00 & 0 fanatics did that.

Dave
454

Peaky 556

John, my simplistic observation is that the "Rail Ruster"does NOT do what it says on the tin.

I fondly imagined it to be an acid of reasonable concentration, such as hydrochloric, which I know causes rusting of austenitic stainless (ie 'Type 304' and similar).

If not that, nor a brown paint, then what is it?

Personally I find the glitzy S/S rail too offputting, and have switched to brass.  I LIKE the greeny-grey patina!

Rgds, Tim

John Candy

Tim,

According to the bottle it does contain HCl (18%) and can also be used as a boiler de-scaler.
I don't know what grade of steel Cliff's rail is made from but all the "ruster" does is make it a little less shiny.

My preference is for brass but I needed to buy some ready-made turnouts to speed up my track-laying which meant having steel from Cliff.
Add to that the fact that the G3S brass rail has been out of stock for a while now.

Painting the rail is a low priority at present and I may learn to live with it as it stands....perhaps a good dose of "acid rain" will improve it!

Regards,
John.

My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

blagdon

The Blagdon and Pensford Light Railway uses mostly Society brass rail, but it was started many years ago! Recycled nickel silver PECO 'G' scale flat bottomed rail is also used in sidings (mounted on 'Tenmil' rail clips). Both weather/blacken after a few seasons and join easily using PECO rail joiners.

As to John's question, well ii's all a matter of personal choice.

AshleyW

my "stainless steel" drinks mug at work, is a crappy dirty brown colour on the inside,which only comes off with bleach and scouring,so i am going to experiment and submerge a length of rail into a vat of tea to see if it does the same ! fingers crossed.

John Candy

#8
The brown deposit is likely tannin which is present in many drinks made from organic matter, including wines, and is used traditionally in the "tanning" process of leather (i.e. not the modern factory mass-production process which uses chemical substitutes).

I think it would require a long period of immersion to produce a "rusty" rail, since the rate of deposit is gradual .... when I clean the deposits out of our stainless steel teapot, it takes several weeks of use (5 or 6 times per day) before a fresh coating of tannin takes the shine away.

One method which may work, is to brush a mix of diluted PVA and iron filings onto the rail and (when the pva has dried) leave in the rain. I think (from observation of stainless items left lying around in damp conditions) that this may quite quickly stain the rail. The PVA is simply to stop the filings washing/falling off the rail before they have done their job.

Another method which could work (again from observation in the kitchen) is to scrub the rail with a "Brillo" pad (or just plain wire wool), I think small amounts of the wire wool "snag" and adhere to the surface of the stainless steel and induce corrosion.

Another possibility is salt (NaCl) ...... a few years ago I, accidentally, left a few items of redundant stainless steel cutlery in a drawer where some salt had spilled out......when the cutlery was eventually removed it was pitted and corroded where the salt had been in contact. This, again, was a slow process.

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.