Pantograph engravers / mills

[Andy B]

Pantograph engravers have been mentioned in a few threads, so I thought I'd start a separate thread for them... and start off with a request for help.

I have just got myself a Newing Hall Model 'D' machine. I'm missing the wrench to remove the cutters from the tapered socket in the spindle. (Mine has a taper adaptor into a 10mm collet).
Pantograph Services sell a wrench for £11 - which seems a lot for what it is.
Does anyone have such a wrench that they could measure / draw around and post the information here or email to me? 10 minutes with a piece of scrap plate, saw and files should be enough to make something serviceable.

I've just ordered an ER16 collet chuck with 10mm shank, so then I'll be able to use my existing ER16 collets to hold the 'throw-away' type cutters of any size, as well as the taper shank cutters. A lot cheaper than buying the TH / NH collets at £55 each!

Andy

[jamiepage]

Andy,
I recall replying to this request but got very confused about where it went. In the event that you didn't see it, I was unfortunately in no position to help because mine didn't come with one. I use only a collet chuck.
Hope you're sorted out. Pantograph millers, wonderful things. Hours of enjoyment.
Jamie

[Andy B]

Jamie - you did reply, by private message. I have been very remiss in not thanking you for it, so ..... thank you!
I'm still yet to determine the wrench size - but have some more sources to pursue.

I have now powered the machine up, swapped the phases to make it run in the right direction, and managed to remove the broken stud from the broken depth stop clamp. New plate for the clamp just needs finishing and fitting. Then we'll be ready for the first trial.

Andy

[Andy B]

If anyone is looking for a small pantograph engraver, there is a T-H model A on ebay at present - starting at £20.
It would be worth checking if it has a collet spindle or taper socket.

This is the same type as Jamie has.


Andy

[Jon Nazareth]

Andy

What is the difference between a collet spindle and a taper socket?

Jon

[Andy B]

Hi Jon,

The taper socket spindles are a bit like a the spindle of a pillar drill that accepts a Morse Taper - but much smaller (less than half the size of a 0MT!)
Take a look at this link - http://www.pantograph.co.uk/pdfs/engravers.pdf - and you can see the taper shank cutters illustrated at the top.
With the taper socket spindles, one is limited to only using taper shank 'D-bit' type cutters.

A collet spindle holds parallel shank cutters (similar to the 'ER' series collets, if you're familiar with those), and with the right size collet one can hold other tools such as the throw-away milling cutters, countersinks, etc. My D type machine has a collet spindle but came with an adaptor to use the taper shank type also.

If some photos of my set-up and bits would help the explanation, please ask. It's a bit late to go and get the camera out to the workshop right now though.....!

Andy

[MikeWilliams]

You can still get replacement spindles, but be warned that those I've found have had a price tag several times what you'd expect to pay for the whole machine!

However, I understand that John Taylor (of this Parish) uses taper spindles with engraving tools all the time with excellent results.

Mike

[Andy B]

Mike & Jon,

Sorry - I did not mean to imply that the results obtainable with taper shank cutters are any less satisfactory.
Just that using taper cutters one either needs a cutter grinder or is beholden to a very few suppliers such as Pantograph Services (who do provide a very good service) for grinding.

Collets simply provide more opportunities for choices of cutters.

By the way, I found a better illustration of the two spindles - here

And yes, the cost of a new spindle is a bit high in comparison - 11x what I paid for my Model 'D'!
Andy

[MikeWilliams]

Andy,

The one for sale says "no adjustment to x and y axes".  What does that mean?  Does it mean that you are stuck with a set reduction ratio?  and if so, I wonder what that ratio is.

Mike

[Andy B]

Hi Mike,

The 'X' and 'y' are referring to axes for moving the work table - as on a conventional milling machine.

Look at the photos and you'll see that the work on a Model 'A' is mounted directly onto the base of the machine (via the T slots).
For engraving multiple items (like words or numbers on tags), one simply places the next tag in the same position (using stops). However, if you want to cut (profile) several of the same item out of a piece of sheet then one has to undo the clamps and move the sheet between items.

All the floor-standing machines have an X-Y table, so to move position on the sheet just needs a wind of the relevant handle.

The reduction ratio is not fixed on the model 'A' machines.  I don't know the exact range, but typically 16:1 or 30:1 as a maximum. Minimum could be 1:1, but some T-H machines only came down to 2:1 or 1.5:1.

Andy