Author Topic: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?  (Read 1546 times)

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Offline Peaky 556

Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« on: September 23, 2017, 09:37:13 AM »
Morning all,
The reason I'm asking is because I need some running data for it.  Slaters can't directly help, but have decently offered me one on a sale or return basis so that I can take the data.  The unit has a Mabuchi motor, but I just can't register on their website for whatever reason. 

As some will know, I have characterised motors in the past using a tachometer and DVM, and that's all I need to do on the unit.  IMHO the manufacturer doesn't provide enough data to help us know how it will perform in various models.  For instance does the output shaft turn so slowly that to get up to mainline speeds we need 7' driving wheels?  Could it be useful as a drive unit for a more modern diesel electric with only 3'9" wheels and still turn a realistic speed?  For the purposes of beginners advice in the G3info pages, to be hosted by John, I just need to understand it a little better.
Regards, Tim

Offline hornbeam

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 05:06:48 PM »
Hi Tim,

I can’t help but I thought they used Piko G motor’s. Must have changed spec I guess.

Offline Doddy

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 05:49:09 PM »
No further information than Mabuchi? Model Numbers etc ???

From Mabuchis website Slaters G3 30:1 Ratio Spur Drive Gearbox motor looks identical to the Mabuchi RS-425PV-13233

https://product.mabuchi-motor.com/detail.html?id=105

Here is the spec . . .

"You don't know what you don't know"

Offline Peaky 556

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 06:15:25 PM »
Simon, the Piko motor is an alternative, is 18V nom and looks smaller than the Mabuchi 24V motor and probably less powerful, so I am ignoring this one for the moment.

Bob, the Mabuchi motor is marked RS-545SH-3055, and I cannot find it on their website.  Maybe you will have better luck?🙂

Cheers, Tim

Offline Peaky 556

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 10:04:18 PM »
Bob, that's a different version of the same size of motor, suffix is different, so has different thickness wire, number of turns, etc.  These make a big difference to current draw, free running speed etc.  Come Monday I might get a reply from Mabuchi to let me access their website and answer queries.  :-\

Offline Peaky 556

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 09:01:17 PM »
Hi all,
Latest is that I've had a response from Mabuchi about this particular motor as used by Slaters, which is what they describe as a "special" and not normal stock.  They rate it at 26V, slightly greater than the Slaters 24V, and from the shaft speed given at 26V under load, I have looked at the typical loco speeds achieved.  The good news is that a steam outline with 80 mm wheels would motor along quite readily at ton-up speeds, so a reduced voltage should keep it all under control and stay realistic.  Otherwise the 50:1 gearbox option would be a better choice.
Less good news is that if we fitted the 30:1 unit to a 'modern outline' diesel or electric with wheels of around 50-55 mm, it will struggle to reach a scale 70 mph.  Thus it wouldn't seem suitable for a mainline express, but fine for one of the modern 'railbus' types or suburban DMUs.
So there we have it, some predictions for this unit over and above the very limited info supplied by Slaters.
As always, any results in practice would help us.

As an afterthought, who else supplies ready made motor-gearbox units suitable for G3?

Tim

Offline IanT

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 11:26:45 PM »
Walsall Industries do one with a choice of two gear ratios....

IanT
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2017, 08:43:58 AM »
Tim, is 70mph not enough for a model?  I suspect few prototypes regularly exceeded that?

Mike

Offline Peaky 556

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 12:30:24 PM »
Mike, if you ever measured the speeds I think you would be surprised how high they are.  Don't forget that at a brisk walking pace of 4 mph we are doing a scale 90 mph!  At the bigger tracks I've attended (e.g. Alan's), I have to break into a jog to keep up with many!  Keeping speeds scale-like is probably one of our harder tasks, and it spoils so many video clips. 
Regards, Tim

Offline Peaky 556

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 08:19:50 AM »
Walsall Industries do one with a choice of two gear ratios....
IanT
Ian, I can't find anything resembling a gear, gearbox or motor on their website, so do you know any more?

All supplier info appreciated as I can try and summarise it on the G3 info pages.

Thanks, Tim

Offline John Candy

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2017, 08:35:56 AM »
Tim,

The unit Ian refers to is that as fitted to the Sentinel locos (Plantagenet and Arthur).
The motor fitted is the same "Powermaster" as that which I sourced for members (at a couple of Quid a throw) a year or two back ... from recollection, Walsall were able to supply with 30:1 and 50:1 ratios (cannot now recall which is fitted to Sentinel but Ian may since he obtained them).

Since Mike is responsible for the production "run" of Sentinels, he will also know the answer.

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2017, 10:20:40 AM »
Keeping speeds scale-like is probably one of our harder tasks, and it spoils so many video clips.
Totally agree Tim, which is why I thought a limit of 70mph might not only be acceptable, but a good thing.

Mike

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2017, 10:22:39 AM »
Sorry, just seen John's post about Walsall gearboxes.  Walsall have a lot of things not on their website.  Give them a call - very helpful.

Mike

Offline IanT

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2017, 10:57:19 AM »
From memory the ratios were 1:36 and 1:50 John - achieved by using either a single or two start worm (otherwise the two gearboxes use exactly the same components).

I think we originally planned to use the 1:50 g/b in any production model. At the time though, I already had two 1:36 motor/gearboxes and I used them in the two prototype engines. They seem to run well enough, so I think I'd stick with 1:36 now. However, because of the gearbox commonality, it would be possible for someone to change the ratio up to 1:50 if they wanted to, by simply changing the worm. I'm happy enough with the way 'Arthur' runs though, seems about right....

Spoke to Walsall at the AGM/Reading ALSRM earlier this year and they still had the gearboxes available then - but I agree with Mike, it's easiest to just give them a call.

Regards,

IanT
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.

Offline IanT

Re: Does Anyone Have a Slaters GBG3 Gearbox Unit?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2017, 11:04:07 AM »
This is the beastie in question....





Regards,

IanT
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.