Author Topic: Sticking Track to Concrete  (Read 2793 times)

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Offline Peaky 556

Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2017, 07:54:15 PM »
Bob, I'm using adhesive from a mastic gun as this appears to be a far simpler way (if it works) than insetting timber battens into the concrete.  Or rather that ship has sailed long ago and the concrete has no battens!
Ralph, I think tiling grout could have worked, but I'm guessing it would have been a more "brittle" joint that would be easy to disrupt when attaching new track to the bit already grouted down.  Anyway, I'm not going there either, as I think several of the mastic systems are pretty good.
General update is that another has failed the tests, namely NEMESIS GRIP AND GRAB.  There are three that seem ok, being EVOSTICK STICKS LIKE 'POO'; TITEBOND SF and PURAFLEX 40...
I'm far too impatient and have now ballasted over a lot of the track already laid.  Life is too short!  If the adhesive wasn't that great and some of the track was lifting, I've just ballasted over and crossed my fingers that the ballast, when set, will hold it all solid enough to walk on. 
I'm laying track down the cutting featured in the Newsletter, and this will only have occasional footfall.  As I work towards the driveway crossing the adhesives will be better through natural selection.  By the time I get to the driveway I should have a pretty good idea of what works, and what's more, the ballast here will effectively be solid concrete with aluminium tramlining.  Roll on this Indian Summer!
Regards, Tim

Offline Andy B

Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2017, 10:22:33 AM »
Hi Tim,
One of the Western Thunder forum members has built a 1/32 outdoor line, using Cliff Barker track. He has used bonding rather than pinning.
Thread here - http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/launceston-road.104/ (it runs to 80 pages...)

Here is his method:
"I have latterly being laying it "spot fixing" it with epoxy, the five minute stuff you can buy in sensibly sized bottles from Eileen's et al.
I do this in order to set up correct (hopefully) alignment, level and "top" of the rails, lots of examples of how this doesn't always work back up the thread.
What is really fixing the track though is not the epoxy, but the Ballast that I then add. This is put on dry, shaped, wetted and then flooded with SBR.
I cannot recommend this method highly enough, it makes for a phenomenally robust and permanent formation and looks great, it also helps keeping the track clean as detritus can't get stuck between the sleepers."

Andy

Offline Peaky 556

Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2017, 12:26:57 PM »
Andy,
Thanks for the summary.
Regarding spot fixing, this is more or less what I am doing, but rather than individual spots I am running the adhesive bead along the full length of the underside beneath the rails, following the plastic sleeper spacers that GRS track employs.
Regarding the use of SBR, I have been in touch with Ted, who informs me that he originally used the SBR method, but disadvantages included a need for it to set above 20 deg C, that it flooded out milky white liquid for weeks after laying, that it needed re-doing every few years, and that it was not waterproof such that the base was always damp, encouraging fungi.  I am trying to get Ted to write an article on ballasting in general and specifically his new and much improved approach using diluted laminating resin.
My personal approach to ballasting is to use bird grit mixed with cement, which I hope will keep the whole business solid!  Time will tell...
Cheers, Tim

Offline Peaky 556

Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2017, 08:39:28 PM »
All,
A bit of an update on this ground level railway.  I have laid in total 13 lengths of track, each about a yard and a half, as the double track run through the cutting and entering the coldframe.  If the adhesive performance was very iffy I lifted and relaid it with something better, but if the track panel was mostly stuck down I have accepted it.  With the recent rains, cool temps, and the short periods available to stick down more track and allow curing, I have discovered that two of the three front-runner adhesives don't set very well, mainly if the blob is thick as when filling large irregularities in the concrete!  They are the Evostick "Sticks like Poo" and Titebond "SF Construction". 
The product I'm homing in on seems to be the type recommended by Ted, being a PU "Puraflex 40".
I have ballasted most of it now as the ballast should, in my view, help the overall robustness.  Also I don't really want to know if the glue fails in the first frost!  Another reason is that I need to walk on it sometimes.... 


Here's a sneak preview......
Regards, Tim

Offline John Candy

Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2017, 11:14:43 PM »
Looks a very neat job....... what radius are the curves and how much clearance have you allowed between track and the walls?
I have used "Gripfill" in a few places to fix girders to masonry, masonry to masonry, plastic board to itself and to bricks. It has been down 4 years now, has set like rock and shows no sign of failing.

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline Peaky 556

Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2017, 08:35:21 AM »
John,
The tightest radius here is 6 m.  Clearances were set using a plywood template for the particular track centre spacing of 180 mm on this curve, the template being sized for 140 mm wide stock as per G3S standards.  There was probably another 1/2" from the edge of the ply template to the walls.


These templates are very convenient to use, see pic



I never tried "Gripfill", pity it could have saved me a lot of trial time.
Regards, Tim