Author Topic: Sticking Track to Concrete  (Read 915 times)

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Offline Peaky 556

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Sticking Track to Concrete
« on: October 04, 2017, 10:17:29 AM »
Does anyone have a successful way of doing this?
If I can find a suitable grab adhesive, as applied by mastic gun, then I'd like it to last a few years before I get around to adding ballast.  I have tried a few, Pinkgrip SF, Pinkgrip original and Gripfix original, none inspire confidence despite being used on a dry and swept concrete base.
Thanks, Tim

Offline Peaky 556

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 10:21:02 AM »
This is how I've been tackling the job, but bond to the concrete is poor or non-existent.


Offline wolfstone

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 10:55:07 AM »
Although I have not tried it with track I have found Gorilla Glue very good for sticking concrete to concrete and other things to concrete they have lasted more than two years.
Tim

Offline John Candy

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2017, 11:59:00 AM »
Tim,

If those are GRS polypropylene sleepers, then I doubt you will find a glue that will stick them successfully to anything. Polypropylene is notoriously difficult since it resists solvent based adhesives and is not conducive to contact adhesives such as Evostik or UHU....they just peel away.

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John.



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Offline AshleyW

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2017, 12:47:06 PM »
tim why not just have a hole betwix sleepers with a rawlplug in, then make a plasticard piece that sits over two sleepers with a hole in the middle,so you can clamp the sleepers down, at around two per meter, it also lets you slide the track side ways with a release of pressure on the screw to re-align, handy for me when the window cleaner knocks it,or wife when putting washing out etc!!!

Offline Andy B

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 01:01:18 PM »
Tim,
Various products are available which are known as a "Polyolefin Adhesion Promoter", from the likes of 3M, Loctite, etc.
Possibly worth investigating? I can't claim any experience of using them. though.

Loctite have a consumer technical help-line, in addition to their business one. http://www.loctite.co.uk/contact-services-4080.htm

Andy

Offline Peaky 556

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 01:17:10 PM »
John, Andy, it's bond to the concrete that is disappointing, and this stuff is meant to be a builders adhesive!
Bond to the track is tolerable, as it keys into the hollow underside of the sleepers.  It might be the delay in getting the bead the full length of the track down both sides, might be 30 secs or so.  I'll see if I can get slicker!  ;) Tim

Offline Andy B

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 02:40:47 PM »
Ahh - misunderstood!
Does the adhesive just peel off the concrete? And if so, is there a layer of dust on the surface (of the adhesive)?

Some of the adhesives you mentioned can be used on damp surfaces - so could be worth a try to hose down / pressure wash the concrete first?

Andy

Offline Peaky 556

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 02:43:30 PM »
Although I have not tried it with track I have found Gorilla Glue very good for sticking concrete to concrete and other things to concrete they have lasted more than two years.
Tim
Tim, did you mean Gorilla glue or Gorilla Grab Adhesive? I’ve just seen these two in Wilco’s...


The mastic is £8 a throw, making it one of the pricier options among the mastics at B&Q, but it’s one to try if all else fails!
Regards, Tim

Offline wolfstone

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 06:23:19 PM »
Tim
I used the Glue. use it sparingly as it foams up you only need a very small amount I would spread it thinly with a spatula.
Tim

Offline John Candy

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2017, 08:06:20 PM »
Tim,

Perhaps have a word with Ted S?
His business was industrial solvents, adhesives and paints.

John.
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Offline Peaky 556

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2017, 06:52:23 PM »
Tim,
Perhaps have a word with Ted S?
His business was industrial solvents, adhesives and paints.
John.
Thanks John, I have done so and his advice is to use a Polyurethane grab adhesive.  I am awaiting some in the post.
Meanwhile I have tried six different types of builders grab adhesive, all of them claiming to give wonderful performance.  Three are definitely poor at sticking to concrete; namely Pink Grip (two types), and GripFill.  One other is looking promising after a couple of days, and two others were tried earlier this evening, so early days yet.
I'll report in full when I have drawn some conclusions.  Fingers crossed!
Regards, Tim

Offline Peaky 556

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 10:24:43 PM »
Another poor performer (in this particular combination of materials and circumstances, I wish for no litigation!), is Unibond Megagrip Plus.  Yes doesn't the name sound wonderful, but it's just another one that lifts off the concrete without any provocation.  Interestingly, and against all predictions, bond to the polypropylene sleepers has been no problem so far, but it is helped by the hollow underside that engages to a depth of 4 or 5 mm. 
Products still in contention are NEMESIS GRIP & GRAB, TITEBOND SF CONSTRUCTION, and PURAFLEX 40, the last one being a PU compound.  The weather hasn't really been very challenging though, with hardly any rain and certainly no low temps.  It'll probably only take a couple of weeks to experience all seasons though, so I had better resist the strong temptation to ballast it and allow the weather at it.
Assuming no disasters, I don't have any inclination to keep searching, although I will try Gorilla Glue on a small section of sleeper (thanks for the suggestion Tim).  The only problem I foresee with this is inability to gap fill over the irregularities in the concrete, and give the necessary support to prevent the track flexing too much when I walk on it (or drive over it...).  A thick masticky and solidifying substance seems a better idea here.

Offline Doddy

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2017, 09:24:46 AM »
Travelling the country one gets to see all sorts of fixings used with concrete track, I see your breaking new ground with adhesives though.

Typically I see wooden battens inserted into the concrete, either set into the ground or where concrete beams and arches have been built.

The tracks sleepers are then screwed into the wood battens to secure track alignment and to prevent movement across the concrete beams.

A similar design is used for where the track is at ground level. The wooden battens being inserted into the concrete every few feet or so.

NB: Although these pictures show 5" track, the 'inserted batten' system is also used for 2 1/2" gauge raised and track level installations.
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Offline cabbage

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Re: Sticking Track to Concrete
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2017, 11:10:03 AM »
Tim,
I will confess to having sucked a few sherbet dabs - but what about timing grout?

Regards

Ralph