Author Topic: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay  (Read 1019 times)

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Offline MikeWilliams

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GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« on: May 14 2018 22:52 »
A bit tarnished but otherwise appear to be as new.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/San-Cheng-2-1-2-Inch-Gauge-Gauge-3-GWR-Small-Prairie-2-B-Set-Coaches-Brass/142794986053?hash=item213f3e9245:g:SzkAAOSwCHBa-e4p

"buy it now" price £1795.  Sounds good for all three?

Mike

Offline John Candy

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #1 on: May 14 2018 23:51 »
I am currently repainting (as a favour for a friend) one of these 45XX locos from BR black to GWR green.

The quality (or rather lack thereof) has to be seen to be believed.
Everytime I look at it another bit drops off......if I were to sneeze, I would end up with a heap of bits.
The soldering is appalling, it looks as though solder paint or paste has been used and the joints have not been heated enough to cause the solder to flow....... it is still grey and soft.

So, be warned, you will need a 100W soldering iron, plenty of emery to clean the joints and it will not be an easy task.

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline LankyTank

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #2 on: May 15 2018 07:14 »
But for £80.00 delivery I want the vendor to drive it to my door & hand it over personally.........

Just saying

Barry

Offline IanT

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #3 on: May 15 2018 08:53 »
I don't think I've heard of San Cheng' before - presumably distributed by a UK retailer (GRS?)

Regards,

IanT
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Offline John Candy

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #4 on: May 15 2018 09:13 »
Ian,
San Cheng produced both the 45XX and B-sets for GRS.
Both products equally renowned for their ability to fall apart at the slightest provocation!
Mr San Cheng retired a few years ago and the factory closed.
They also made a lot of smaller scale models ("0" and G1) for Tower Models and some of the GRS 45XX and B-set G3 models ended up in Bachmann's hands...... there was a minor debacle over an article in the G3 Newsletter a few years back (after you retired as editor) you may recall, when the names of GRS and Bachmann were erroneously linked, much to the annoyance of Mr. Adamson, Senior.
Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline MikeWilliams

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #5 on: May 15 2018 10:55 »
I have never had one so perhaps should notcomment. But although the soldering is well known, surely these are still the best electric models ever marketted in our scale, kit or RTR?

Offline John Candy

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #6 on: May 15 2018 11:02 »
Mike,
The B-sets are not too bad from an accuracy viewpoint; the underframe trusses are wrong, the roof vents are incorrectly positioned and the door handle holes are too far from the door edge, otherwise OK.
The 45XX is not right! The boiler is pitched about a 1/4 inch too high (the smokebox saddle is to blame) which gives it a "top heavy" stance and the steam pipes are accordingly too long.
There have been reports of the motors being weak performers (unable to haul a B-set) and catching fire..... in fact the example now on my bench has been re-motored with a standard GRS motor gearbox at some stage.
Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline AllWight

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #7 on: May 15 2018 13:57 »
I painted a GRS prairie a few years back and fitted it with RC gear.  It was painted in full GWR colours looked really nice. I took it once wired up to run it and test run it at Dick Allens. It went about 6 feet and slowly ground to a halt. It was as if the 16 AA were not sufficient to power it. It later transpired that it was not. After talking to Brian Jones we measured the input and output voltage across the mac5 speed controller. According to Brian there should be a 10% loss through the speed controller. So for example 10 volts in 9 volts out. No, it was loosing nearer to 50% between the input and output. Brian said turn it off do not use it. It transpired after his calculations that the motor was trying to draw 60 amps. He also asked me,"did it smoke or catch fire?!" Luckily it did not as i turned it off quickly suspecting something was wildly wrong with it.

So it went back to GRS to have a decent motor fitted and amazingly the motor was not under warranty so that cost had to be borne by the owner. Thats a separate story in itself. Unfortunately, when it was back at GRS the person replacing the motor had an unfortunate accident and the loco was knocked to the floor and bent it like a banana making it a write off.

Hang on it gets better!!

So GRS replaced the write off with another from stock as well as transferred the radio control gear from the old loco that was brand new into the new loco. The loco was completed by GRS. The owner collected it took it home and the first time he ran it, it caught fire!!

The lesson we can learn here is that the motors in the sang cheng were crap cheap imitations according to Brian Jones and the Chinese soldering is diabolical. Also the brass is not proper brass but a nasty cheap composite brass which is atrocious to solder. I know i have fixed 6 of these locos and several coaches over the years. You need to reinforce every solder joint and attack it with the biggest meanest soldering iron you have.

To just run them straight out of the box is ok but it will start resembling a clown car coming into the circus arena.

Mark

Offline MikeWilliams

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #8 on: May 15 2018 22:48 »
I didnt know the boiler was too high. A scale six inches is a lot! Unfortunately I still suspect it is the best G3 engine on the market ... Unless anyone knows of something better?

Offline AshleyW

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #9 on: May 16 2018 00:42 »
the b-set buffer beam has fallen off already -see the picture

Offline hornbeam

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #10 on: May 16 2018 07:22 »
Well Mike, I’d be one to agree with you.

I’ve had buffer issues and one beam come away on the five coaches I’ve had and but repaired them all and with a further coach currently being converted with help by Mark to an auto coach I will upgrade the buffers to slaters.

They are not perfect, and as Mark has said the brass is not a nice material to work with. Since Matt has taken I’ve noticed a improvement in customer service from the shop.

The Bachmann comment- when the factory closed Bachmann got some left overs of stock in the factory. Michael was unhappy about this as Bachmann were selling them for less than he was. Personally, I’d feel the same. He must have put a huge amount of money into the project at great personal risk.

Since these were produced I’ve yet to see anyone offer anything ready to run at anywhere near the same price....

Offline John Candy

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #11 on: May 16 2018 07:27 »
If this is the best G3 can offer then it is bad news for G3!

Think on how many of these items (both 45XX and B-sets) regularly appear for sale. In many cases unpainted and in others as supplied ready-painted by GRS.

This is the scenario that comes to mind:

Fellow goes to show and sees G3 layout which impresses then:-
1) Joins the G3S
2) Orders the only readily available G3 RTR items from GRS (45XX and B-set).
3) Delight turns to disappointment when he tries running the train and bits fall off and the loco cannot haul a decent load or even catches fire!
4) Decides G3 is a waste of time and money, puts train on Ebay and goes back to G1 or "0".
5) Fails to renew G3S membership.

As Ashley points out, the coach in this example has already started shedding bits and it has (allegedly) not been run .... also the motor on this 45XX is the Chinese original (you can tell by the gearbox fitting in the underneath view) and will probably need replacing at anything from 100 to 200GBP.

John.

P.S. While composing this, I see Simon has posted as above : In my view Kingscale is probably a "better bet" but unfortunately no electric options and rather more expensive but comparatively better value than GRS products.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline MikeWilliams

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #12 on: May 16 2018 09:33 »
Well, this thread will really encourage people into Gauge 3!  Kingscale models also come on the market regularly but seem good qualitygenerally. I forgot that the nrw GRS GWR coaches are alsoo rtr and apparently very good. Have any been sold yet?

Offline John Candy

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #13 on: May 16 2018 09:41 »
I really an NOT trying to discourage people from joining G3 : I just don't want to encourage them to buy a "pig in a poke" .... nothing is likely to "put them off" more than paying a lot of money for an inferior model.

My message to anyone contemplating G3 is this, be prepared to kit-build and scratchbuild if you want good, reliable, models unless you can afford to pay a professional to do the work for you.

Members of this forum are well aware of my views on GRS kits but they build into as good a model as the effort you are prepared to expend on them.

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline MikeWilliams

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Re: GWR Prairie AND two B set carriages on e-bay
« Reply #14 on: May 16 2018 10:04 »
Fair point John!