Author Topic: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.  (Read 843 times)

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Offline John Candy

A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« on: June 07, 2018, 02:20:28 PM »
Yesterday, Richard Toplis came here with the nine new boards for Monkton Priors (to form the fiddle yard and an eventual scenic extension of the station track) but highlight was the arrival of the J39.

It is currently "in bits" since I am fitting the sound system and carrying out a pre-operational inspection and general maintenance. Those shiny wheel rims will have to go beneath a coat of oily grime!

It has a Spoerer TX-21 transmitter matched to a Deltang RX-102 receiver. This will be my first loco with a rotary speed control. My only concern is that if the signal is lost, the loco maintains its last received signal.... and keeps going. All my other locos are set to halt if the signal is lost. Anyone know whether this set up can be re-programmed so train stops when signal lost?

John.

My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline cabbage

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 06:31:37 PM »
You might be looking in the wrong area... The Electronize range of 8A model railway ESCs does have one that shuts down on signal loss.

regards

ralph

Offline John Candy

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 08:10:23 PM »
Ralph,

I didn't choose to have the Spoerer/Deltang setup....that is what Richard T decided upon when he designed the batch of J39 locos and it arrived with it fitted. The ESC (again not by choice) is a "Fosworks ESC1L" (which may be a Spoerer type, since Fosworks have taken over the range upon Peter Spoerer's retirement).

All my previous locos have Mac5/Electronize/Electron 12 or Mtroniks Viper 10 Loco HV ESCs, all of which will stop on loss of signal if the transmitter/receiver are setup to override the "coast" functions.

Regards,
John.

My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline Andy B

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 08:37:44 PM »
John,
The Deltang Rx6x receivers do allow the user to set up either 'Cruise Control' or 'Failsafe' modes using the 'paperclip' change method.
As far as I can see, however, the Rx102 receivers do not have that option.

What type of motor does the loco have? i.e. what voltage and current will it be drawing?
If under 6A, and you really want the failsafe option, then it would be easy to swap the Rx/ESC combo out for a single Rx65 package.

Andy

Offline Doddy

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2018, 08:46:50 PM »
Dear John,
Looking at the specifications of the Deltang Receiver, I am surprised to see the default as you state it with little to no variations on reprgramming that feature..
However, according to the Deltang documentation their is a possibility to program a failsafe sleeptime so that the locomotive can stop after a timer has been triggered. I am sorry to say I don't have enough experience of how to change this myself, but a short phone call to a Deltang Supplier should get you on the right path.
Best regards,
Doddy

 [FAIL] - FAILSAFE AND CONTINUOUS RUNNING
 The normal behaviour of the Rx on signal loss is to stop the motor. It holds the last known throttle position for 1 second and then closes the throttle smoothly over another 3 seconds. This can be reduced to 1s for a quicker response. Switching the Tx off is one way of invoking an emergency stop. Control can be restored by switching the Tx back on.
 When the Rx is controlling a train on a continuous loop, it can be made to continue running in two ways:
 (1) When you deselect the loco using the 'Selecta' feature, Rx6x-22 receivers are configured to 'continue' running. They will stop if the Tx is switched off (emergency stop).
 (2) When you set failsafe to the SLEEP time. If the Tx is switched off the train will continue running until the sleep timer expires (eg: after 1 hour). If the sleep time is set to 'never sleep' the train will continue running forever. Control can be restored by switching the Tx back.
 In all cases, if LVC (low voltage cutoff) is enabled the LVC function will stop the motor when the battery reaches the minimum voltage.
"You don't know what you don't know"

Offline Andy B

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2018, 09:01:19 PM »
Doddy,
That is only for the Rx6x receivers, about half-way down this page: - http://www.deltang.co.uk/rx6x-features.htm
...unless you have found a page that I missed?

Andy

Offline Doddy

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 09:15:24 PM »
Doddy,
That is only for the Rx6x receivers, about half-way down this page: - http://www.deltang.co.uk/rx6x-features.htm
...unless you have found a page that I missed?

Andy

Hmmn You're right! Makes the situation even worse then!   :(
"You don't know what you don't know"

Offline Andy B

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2018, 09:22:18 PM »
P.S. John, looking at the MTroniks website, all of their Loco ESCs are now featuring 'Cruise Control'.

Andy

Offline John Candy

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2018, 10:01:02 PM »
Thanks Andy and Doddy.

It looks as though I will have to live with the RX102 as it is.

I have Mtroniks Viper 10 Loco HV ESCs in my Dean Goods and Johnson 1F (also fitted it to Mark T's Prairie tank) but the transmitters/receivers can be set to override the cruise control and the locos will stop when the signal is lost (the "failsafe" on aero type transmitters can be set to bring down an out of control plane).

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline John Candy

More Deltang issues.
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 02:25:10 PM »
Is anyone using the TX-21 / Deltang RX-102 combination in the garden?
I have found that range is only 30ft with clear line of sight (less if a bush gets in the way).
The batteries in both units are at full charge and the "cruise control" default is a big problem.
If the signal is lost it takes several seconds to restore control after you have moved back into range (during which time the train can have collided or derailed if at speed). This is no good and if there is no solution, I will have to rip it apart and replace with a proper aircraft type radio control system where the signal works over long distances.
Any ideas?
Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline Andy B

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 04:00:50 PM »
John,
What length of aerial does it have (there are 2 options), and how exposed is it?
Pictures?
Is the body all metal, with the Rx hidden right inside the boiler??

We have extensively used Deltang Tx/Rx combinations in Ralph's garden, which has much in the way of shrubbery and edibles, as well as a greenhouse and summerhouse, masking the line with no loss of signal.

Andy

Offline Peaky 556

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 04:41:01 PM »
John,
I can corroborate what Andy has said but in my case the transmitter is the TX23H, being the high power version, and the RX-102 has the extended aerial option.  I deliberately bought extended range equipment with a view to its ultimate use on my planned ‘around the house’ railway.
I have a feeling that Ralph uses similar equipment, but I’m not sure if Andy has the ‘standard’ or HP options with his daughter’s Thomas.  Perhaps they will confirm?
My personal view is that the ‘twiddleknob’ style of Tx, as promoted by Deltang, is vastly superior to the aircraft joystick type, having now tried both, and so I hope you don’t end up discarding them.
Great to see some action on your system!
Tim

Offline Andy B

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2018, 04:54:34 PM »
For junior use, Thomas has a standard Tx20 / Rx65 (with a short aerial) - but in a plastic body.
I do have a Tx23H too, but it does not get used at present.

I'm fairly sure Ralph's is a standard Tx23 - it does not have an external aerial. We'll have to await his reply to confirm, and advise which Rx's he is using (his loco bodies being a mixture of wood and metal).

Andy

Offline cabbage

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2018, 05:02:33 PM »
Sorry slightly handicapped at the moment. I use a std tx-23 and the locos all use the rx-102 with the extended aerial. Operational range is about 10m.

I have no problems with any type of fruit tree of fruit b.ush. The track also sits below the level of five "raised beds" with no problem.

Regards

Ralph

Offline John Candy

Re: A Long Wait but Worth it : J39.
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2018, 08:45:01 PM »

Thanks for replies.
The aerial is short and pokes out below the frames (the loco is all brass and steel).

When I first saw it I thought it looked a bit puny and the surrounding metal caused further concerns....but then mine is not the first of the batch and surely the design would have been modified if others had reported problems.

Normally, I place receivers either below the coal load in the tender or in bunker of tank locos and have never had reception problems with Planet and Futaba systems..... but the majority of the locos do have resin bodies although the brass ones have not caused any problems when running at Ampthill.

My quick and easy solution would be to replace with a normal r/c receiver of the aircraft type (Planet T5 or RadioLink). I don't want to spend money on another Deltang with longer aerial, just to find it gives a similar result and will still have the problem of running on after signal loss. I have r/c extension leads and may move the new receiver to the tender if it proves to be necessary.

From what has been said about Deltang effective range, it seems more suitable for indoor/exhibition layouts than for large garden lines.

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.