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Tender Comparisons.

Started by John Candy, Jul 25 2018 15:07

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John Candy

Just to illustrate some of the great variety of GWR tender types (for those who think GWR designs are boring and all the same), here are the two currently in my collection.

To the left is a 2,500 Gallon Dean type (as updated in the 1930's and modelled on No. 1273, being that attached to preserved Dean Goods No.2516) while, to the right, is a Churchward 3,500 Gallon type (again as updated in the 1930's and, with a rare Collett "scalloped" underframe, being modelled on preserved No. 2376, as attached to preserved 2-8-0 No 2818).

The 2,500 tender is attached to my 2301 Class Dean Goods No.2568 (built from a modified GRS brass kit) and the, completed just today, 3,500 tender (the shell and underframe built from Walsall Model Industries etched brass parts with much "custom" detailing added to suit loco No.3406 "Calcutta").

The larger tender is in the mid-1930's art deco "shirtbutton" livery : The full size emblem was a transfer (rather than painted on) and, on tenders with prominent domed rivets, was offset from the usual central position, to avoid problems fixing the transfer over rivets. On flush-riveted locos, the emblem was in the usual centralised position. It was sometimes the case (according to one source I have read) that any domed rivets which would otherwise prevent central location of the transfer would be ground flush. As with many minor details, practices varied between different  GWR "Factories" (works).

On the drawing board are a 3,000 Gallon Dean tender (to accompany a 2251 Class Collett Goods) and another (slightly different to No.2376) 3,500 Gallon Churchward tender (to accompany a 43XX Mogul).

All the GWR locos will (eventually) be seen running on "Monkton Priors" and will make a welcome change from the more commonplace 45XX Prairies, 57XX Panniers and 48XX/14XX 0-4-2 auto tanks, so frequently seen on G3 layouts.

My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

John Candy

More GWR variety....this time a Dean 3000 gallon in "modernised" (1930's) condition.
Thanks to Mike "753", who kindly agreed to produce a second tender, in addition to that for "Truro", I now have a suitable tender to attach, eventually, to a 2251 class (Collett Goods).

The 3000 gallon tender is quite distinctive, in having the leading handrails flared out to the extremities of the running plate. The 3000 gallon came in two running plate widths being 7ft 8ins and 8ft 3ins (the tank was the same width.. 6ft 6ins.. on both) to match the width of the loco to which they were attached, when first built. Over the years it became a case of "mix and match", since the first available tender (of suitable capacity) would be paired with a freshly "out-shopped" loco. Both widths were attached to 2251 class locos and my example is of the wider variety.

Pouring down outside today, so photos taken on the bench, seen as fresh from the paintshop last night.

By way of contrast (if only to prove there is life outside of Paddington), is a GNR tender, still under construction, to be paired with Roger McL's ("bolingbroke") Ivatt large Atlantic (LNER C1). This tender is fully-sprung, using cast brass spring/axlebox units supplied by Richard Toplis and detailed with brass turnings and resin castings by yours truly.

My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

John Candy

The GNR 3500 gall. tender is now complete (except for buffers, vac pipe and draw hook) and today received a "blow over" of etch primer.

It is destined for an Ivatt Large Atlantic (LNER C1) which is subject of a "rescue" attempt following a disastrous commission by a fellow G3S member from a "professional" model-maker! The model was so bad that 90% has been binned. Just the wheels and motor were re-useable.


My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

John Candy

Oh no! ... not ANOTHER GWR tender?
I can almost hear the groans from some quarters!
This one wasn't (exactly) planned.

I started off (more than 2 years ago) with a spare tender and that was to go with a "Bulldog", which eventually materialised as No.3406 "Calcutta".

I was offered the opportunity to acquire a 43XX Mogul, to be built-to-order by a certain "professional" model-maker. Without going into details, I cancelled that order but already had a tender lined up for the loco. Result, I came full-circle and ended up back-at-square-one, with a spare tender.

After a lot of thought, I decided I needed a big loco and plumped for a 29XX class ("Saint" ).

The tender is a 3500 gallon Churchward type, as rebuilt in the 1930's, with a Collett design of underframe, having wider hornplates. Briefly, many Churchward tenders acquired strengthened underframes from the 1920s onwards and they were of three distinct patterns. Firstly, the original frame pattern was strengthened by fitting gusset plates, vertically to the outside of the frames, each side of the hornplates (the spring hangers passing  through the angled plates), the result looking rather untidy. Next came a new Collett frame pattern with "scalloped" shaping where the hornplate joined the horizontal frame (there were very few of this type made in 1925/26, making it a very rare type, as seen attached to my model of 3406 "Calcutta"). The type seen in my latest model was introduced in 1931 and was perpetuated, being seen beneath new-build Collett tenders in the 1930's.

Later Collett (post-1931) frame

compare with Collett 1925/26 pattern.

Buffer types : Dean/Churchward on left and final Collett type on right.

The new tender is in the condition depicted in a 1939 photo. of 2902 "Lady of the Lake" and another 1949 photo. of 2930 "Saint Vincent".
2902 is depicted in "as-built", straight-framed, condition, whereas 2930 is in, post-1931, rebuilt condition (curved front and rear drop-frames, outside steam pipes and short SV bonnet).
2902 is simpler to model than 2930 (fewer curvy bits) but 2930 looks neater/more attractive (to me at least).

Whichever I decide upon, both have one snag to be overcome.
The leading pair of coupled wheels are at 7ft centres and the wheel dia. (over tread) is 6ft 8.5 ins.
Factor in the overscale G3 flanges and a problem looms! It may well be that either the WB will have to be stretched by a couple of mm or the wheel diameter reduced.
The same dimensions apply to "Stars" and "Castles" and it would interesting to know how G3 models of those have been constructed. Slaters produce wheels for "Castle" class which are said to be 6ft 8.5iins, so has the WB been stretched when using those wheels? It may be that I will have to ask Mark Wood to make wheels because the stroke of a "Castle" is shorter than that of a "Saint" and the crank throw therefore too small (plus it may be that the Slaters wheels have the strengthened crank pin fitted to later Lots of "Castles" (a filled-in spoke web).

Plenty to think on but it is unlikely to appear for some months (perhaps even a year+) as I have a queue of locos awaiting bench space.

I am still trying to ascertain whether the locos being considered were still fully lined in express livery in the late 30's....they certainly were in the late 20's. Photos from the late 30's/40's show them in such grimy condition that you cannot even make out the lettering on the tenders! New-build GWR 4-6-0s of that era (Granges and Manors) were in unlined green but those were mixed-traffic designs. BR turned them out in black, with the mixed traffic lining (LNWR-style).

My loco production has speeded up over the past three months...... I have completed No.2257 , No.  4817 (an auto-tank just out of the paintshop...photos soon) and now this tender.

Attention now turns to a trio of LNWR Coal Tanks.....yes, I do acknowledge the existence of railways other than the GWR!

My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Dr Iain

Just to confirm John's point about wheel spacing, her a a couple of pics of 2999 Lady of Legend at Didcot.