Author Topic: GWR Saddle Tank  (Read 1654 times)

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Offline 753

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #15 on: Oct 14 2020 09:54 »
Looking for reference photos for the Saddle tank I found this excellent detailed and rare close up picture, difficult to date but a guess at the turn of the century also wonder who is the third individual!
Mike

Mike






Offline IanT

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #16 on: Oct 14 2020 12:27 »
Great image Mike - unfortunately, so many old railway photographs simply aren't this sharp.
A small peek at a (well worn?) carriage in the background too.

Regards,

IanT
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.

Offline AshleyW

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #17 on: Oct 14 2020 18:59 »
guess at that time of fuller employment, the third man woul dhave been the shunter, however, he seems to be looking at the camera and looks fairly fresh faced or clean, so probably the camera mans buddy having a unofficial ride.

Offline John Candy

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #18 on: Oct 15 2020 12:55 »
The loco carries a route colour (restriction) disc with power classification "A".
These were applied from around 1923/4, so the photo has to be no earlier than the mid-1920's.
In addition, the loco has been updated and is fitted with Collett buffers in place of the original Dean/Churchward type.

Is it an "official" GWR photo? Could it be a young Mr Collett in the shadows...it looks as though he could be wearing a bowler or trilby??

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2665/3778034422_460f20608d.jpg

John.


My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline 753

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #19 on: Oct 15 2020 13:56 »
John

Thank you for your enlightenment, as to speculation of the third man who knows? but it’s good fun.

Mike

Offline John Candy

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #20 on: Oct 15 2020 21:09 »
I find it an interesting photo for several reasons.

It appears that the tank is coupled to the adjacent loco which is likely a modern Collett design (again see the pattern of buffer) and, from what can be seen, is in very clean (possibly ex-works) condition.
The (awaiting scrapping?) old carriage in background suggests it could be a works yard and possibly Swindon but I am unable to identify the background (are those trees in the distant haze)?

The fact that the photo is of exceptional quality does suggest it could be by the GWR photographic unit and it could be that the tank is hauling a "dead" new loco into position for its official photo to be taken, possibly with Mr Collett overseeing the operation.

Finally, I cannot recall having before seen that pattern of Collett buffer fitted to a small tank loco.... they are usually seen only on larger locos. I wonder if they were fitted to this loco for the specific purpose of strengthening to allow shunting of much larger and heavy locos.

If it is an extraction from a larger photo, it would be interesting to identify the class of loco apparently being hauled.

John.
 
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #21 on: Oct 15 2020 22:24 »
I know very little about GWR engines, or indeed GWR anything.  But, although the buffers look to be bright and shiny the rear vertical edge of the bunker looks dirty, there are streaks of dirt below both ends of the numberplate and a patch above the footplate just to the right of the opening to the cab.  The streaks below the numberplate in particular do not appear after a few days or weeks.  In short, it doesn't look ex-works to me but an engine that has been in service for a year or so.

Mike

Offline John Candy

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #22 on: Oct 15 2020 22:30 »
Mike,
It is the loco to which the tank is coupled (and may be being hauled) that I think may be ex-works....see the shiny buffer head/shank.
Purely hypothetical but it could be Caerphilly Castle or another "first of class" being pulled into position for the photographer.
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #23 on: Oct 16 2020 10:11 »
Sorry John - I completely mis-read your post!

Mike

Offline Doddy

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #24 on: Oct 17 2020 20:35 »
Looking for reference photos for the Saddle tank I found this excellent detailed and rare close up picture, difficult to date but a guess at the turn of the century also wonder who is the third individual!
Mike

Mike





According to The Beginners Guide to Pannier Tanks the photo is of 652 built in the first lot 645-655 (Lot O, 1872), showing the very short bunker length of the 645 class. It also illustrates how inconvenient the rear sandboxes were on many GWR tank engines. The loco has a  set of Collett taper buffers, unusual for a tank loco. 24 September 1926. Picture courtesy David Burton.




The GWR 645 Class was a class of 0-6-0 saddle tank locomotives designed by George Armstrong and built at the Wolverhampton railway works of the Great Western Railway (GWR).[1] Thirty-six were constructed between 1872-3, of which three were built for the South Wales Mineral Railway (SWMR), two for the Carmarthen and Cardigan Railway (C&CR) and the remainder for the GWR.[2] In essence, they were saddle tank versions of his GWR 633 Class of 1871.[1] From 1878 a further 72 of the class, partially enlarged, were added in the 1501 numbering sequence. Unlike the originals, the "1501"s had full-length saddle tanks from the start.

When built, they had 4 ft 6 in (1.372 m) driving wheels (later 4 ft 7 1?2 in or 1.410 m due to thicker tyres) and 16 in × 24 in (406 mm × 610 mm), 16 1?2 in × 24 in (419 mm × 610 mm) or 17 in × 24 in (432 mm × 610 mm) cylinders. Half-cabs were added a few years after construction. From 1918 all but eight of the class were rebuilt with Belpaire fireboxes and larger, pannier tanks extending over the smokebox, and the 17 in (432 mm) diameter cylinders became standard.

Most of the 645s and 1501s were allocated to the Northern Division of the GWR. Between 1910 and 1922 three more of them, Nos. 1806, 1811 and 1546, were transferred to the SWMR, and others too went to South Wales. Most were withdrawn in 1930s. Nos. 1531, 1532, 1538 and 1542 passed briefly into British Railways ownership, but all went by December 1949.  None has survived into preservation.

TTFN

Robert
"You don't know what you don't know"

Offline John Candy

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #25 on: Oct 17 2020 21:16 »
Incidentally, No. 652 was withdrawn in March 1929, which narrows dowm the photo to the period 1923 to 1929.

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline Doddy

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #26 on: Oct 17 2020 22:20 »
Incidentally, No. 652 was withdrawn in March 1929, which narrows dowm the photo to the period 1923 to 1929.

John.
As stated in the previous post   24 September 1926. Picture courtesy David Burton.
"You don't know what you don't know"

Offline 753

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #27 on: Oct 21 2020 15:54 »
Progress on the Saddle Tank, buffer beams and buffers, footplate and splashers.
Now for the saddle tank former.

Mike






Offline 753

Re: GWR Saddle Tank
« Reply #28 on: Oct 25 2020 11:49 »

Making the water tank required a wooden former, this was made by laminating four pieces of 1x4in softwood, marking out the circle and cutting off the corners on the circular saw, and then turning to od on the lathe. I then cut the former just below half way line and rounded of the edges, using one of the strengthen ribs as a template.
The tank itself was made from three panels, the rivets were punched and panels soldered together with the middle panel overlapping the two outer ones. Holes were drilled for the chimney, dome, and safety valve, using these holes to fix with screws to the former the tank was folded over the former.
Three ribs were soldered inside, an end plate to connect to the cab and a front plate for the smokebox door.

Mike