Author Topic: Carriage and wagon wheels  (Read 6877 times)

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Offline Traininvain

Carriage and wagon wheels
« on: September 23, 2010, 09:41:09 AM »
How about the society funding the production of some correct profile carriage wheels (complete with the 2 small lifting holes) and some 3 hole disc wagon wheels? The only metal ones available at the moment either have an inaccurate profile, treads which are too wide, or both.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 10:37:22 AM »
Ian,

When you say "metal", do you mean turned from solid, or steel tyres with "plastic" centres?  If the latter, and assuming you are right and there are none out there, then maybe you are suggesting that the Society underwrite the setup and tooling costs for Slaters to make them, and then sell them through the shop?

If so, then I understand that since Slaters have a tyre of the correct size, we would only need to guarantee a largish order and they will make them.

Would that satisfy your need?

Mike

Offline Traininvain

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 10:44:20 AM »
I'm thinking about the sort of wheels that the G1'ers have - CNC machined steel (similar to Brandbright) - as done by Keith Cousins former company. The problem is that the Brandbright carriage wheels, for example, have over wide treads (8mm), have the wrong profile, and lack the 2 lifting holes. The GRS 3-hole wagon wheels are the wrong profile and resemble the dished American style wheels but with 3 holes.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 11:13:16 AM »
Ah, understand!

I guess it needs a number of members to pre-order a batch after it has been costed.  The cost would be greatly reduced if you could get somebody to do the CAD work f.o.c., or approach whoever does them in the smaller scales to just up-scale.  Could you do that and come back with a price?  I guess to widen the market they need to be insulated for 2-rail too?

Mike

Offline Andy B

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 12:30:45 PM »
I'm happy to produce a CAD profile for a turned wheel  - and can probably pull out a genuine LMS or RCH drawing to base the 3-hole wagon wheel on.

I'm not so familiar with carriage wheels - but the CAD bit is easy if someone can provide me with the details.

Andy

Offline Traininvain

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 01:19:04 PM »
Francis Leach has done a drawing of the wheel and axle - I will talk to him

Offline Ted Sadler

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2010, 09:52:07 PM »
I was intrigued by the 'not dished' comment on 3-hole wagon wheels. I took the attached photo at Tenterden earlier this year and the 3-hole wheels on display do look dished. If anyone wants a full size photo (the 100k limit here does not show it up too well), please let me know.

Regards, Ted

Offline IanT

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 08:37:00 AM »
Nice photo of a Mansell wheel too Ted. Took me a second to notice the 3-holers behind them.

Just out of interest - I have a set of castings for Mansell wheels but I don't know who originally made them (and unfortunately I cannot remember where I obtained them from in the first place). I doubt they are still available - but does anyone recall these being available in the past?
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.

Offline IanT

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 05:17:48 PM »
Well, I met Tim C (our illustrious former Chairman) at Bordon this afternoon and he has confidently predicted that if I go down to my shed and closely examine the back of my Mansell castings, that I will find the word "Bond's" thereon!

I've just got back and I haven't checked the actual items as yet (I have everything in my shed - if only I could actually find it!) but I have cast a beady eye over my old Bonds catalogues. My oldest one is 1947 and they were not mentioned in there, so I looked at the photocopy I have of the parts list for my Bonds Atlantic (taken from a 1930's one I think) and sure enough there they were;

"Half-inch rolling stock parts - Coach Wheels, two iron Mansell wheels mounte don a steel axle - 1/10"

Funny how you forget these things but my first mental 'conversion' was to one pound and ten pence - until it dawned on me (e.g. I remembered) that it was actually one shilling and ten pennies (about nine new pence). Times do change don't they...
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 08:47:15 PM »
Alan Headech also made cast iron Mansell wheels.

Mike

Offline IanT

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 09:37:47 AM »
In which case (unlike Bond's) they may still be available from the 2 1/2" Association. I've had quick a look at their (old) website where they list Alan's castings but I cannnot see the Mansells there. I'll ask Des next time I bump into him.

Of course, since Tim and myself only have four axles between us, we could always build a bogie and half-a-carriage each and find some way to hook them up at GTG's!

Modular carriage building anyone?   :D

Regards,

IanT
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2010, 11:04:53 AM »
Ian,

I am surprised to see that, as you say, Mansell wheels are not listed on Alan's old web page.  He did however sell me six about three years ago, so I know they exist!

Mike

Offline Ted Sadler

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 10:00:57 AM »
While we're on the subject, the other photo I took at Tenterden shows the back of a Mansell wheel. Note the cables connecting the rim to the centre, presumably for track-circuiting purposes - or were they to prevent static build-up? Were they a feature when the wheels were new, or added later?

I'll need to look up the cast name in more detail next time we go to Adrian Booth's line in Tenterden. The visible part of the name on the rear of the hub says "& Axletree Co 1884".

Ted

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2010, 10:48:01 AM »
Hi Ted,

The wire is for track circuiting and was usually added later.  On Wolverton wheels each segment was stamped with a weight, so that when building the wheel matched weights were placed opposite each other.  They still needed to add separate balance weights, but less than would otherwise be the case.

I'm personally saddened that many preserved railways remove Mansell wheels in favour of more modern steel ones.  Drawgear also is routinely replaced by some railways with BR standard, because they are standard and stronger.  Model builders beware when researching at preserved lines.

Mike

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: Carriage and wagon wheels
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2010, 10:52:10 AM »
Also, the Patent Shaft and Axletree Company was based at Wednesbury.  There is a wide range of their products on display at the BlackCountry Museum.  The museum has very little of railway interest but highly recommended anyway.

Mike