Author Topic: LNWR 19' 6" Horse Box  (Read 2343 times)

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Offline IanT

LNWR 19' 6" Horse Box
« on: May 25 2009 21:55 »
Several years ago at the AGM I purchased four brass etched "sides" of what I assumed to be a NBR Horsebox. It was sprayed NBR 'Maroon' and had the simple 'NBR' lettering with the number '30' in straight gold lettering. On further research, I realised that this was not actually an NBR model - but actually a LNWR horsebox. I have photos of the 21ft box (LNWR Carriages - A concise history - David Jenkinson - page 162) that bear a close resemblence to the sides - but have extra side panels.

From this I assumed that the model must be of the 19' 6" LNWR box to diagram 438 - but the only details I've been able to find are of the oringinal version - which had vertically opening top doors - whereas this model has horizontal opening top doors and appears to be of the later version of the 438.

Now there are several mysteries here - the sides were sprayed but had never been assembed and had no 'fittings' etc - so I'm not sure why you would paint some thing before assembly - and I'm clearly missing all of these fittings and need to make them. Now most G3 brass etches of this nature are normally 'up-scaled' from 10, 7 or 4mm originals. So my question is has anyone else got a G3 LNWR 19' 6" Horsebox kit or finished model - or possibly more likely does anyone have this model in a smaller scale? In either case I'd appreciate any drawings supplied or a photo of the finished model (in any scale). I'm assuming that the Mk2 will be very similar to the 21' box but it would be nice to confirm this if possible. 
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.

Offline John Candy

Re: LNWR 19' 6" Horse Box
« Reply #1 on: May 26 2009 04:37 »
I have the D&S kit for this horsebox in 4mm scale!
The instructions state approx. 150 of these were built between 1883 to 1889 but the type was extinct by 1920 and since it would not have suited the period of my proposed 4mm layout it was never built.
The running gear is the antiquated type with the horn guide-plates outside the springs and attached to the outsides of the solebars.
The top-hung door version to which you refer was the version which preceded this type, so that must have dated from the 1850s at a guess (I suspect Mike may know the answer to that).

The kit includes a drawing which will provide all the detail you need (including the arrangement of horizontal vac cyl and clasp-brake linkage).

I am not sure how well the sheet will scan but I will try later and send to you by email if it is possible, otherwise I will send you the sheet to copy the details you need.


My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline IanT

Re: LNWR 19' 6" Horse Box
« Reply #2 on: May 26 2009 10:11 »
That's really great John - I thought there might be an outside chance of someone in the Society having the information requested - but to get such an immediate reply and with the required drawing (which I found in my inbox this morning btw) is really fantastic!! Thanks very much.

Some more in formation about this particular model - the etch is unfortunately to 1/2" scale and this caused me some head scratching. I already have a couple of 1/2" scale wagons that were originally built as 'display models' by a G1 modeller I believe. Very nice models and the wheels and brake gear were fantastic examples of what you can do with cardboard and plywood - but far too fragile to run in the garden. Any indecision in this area was resolved when I dropped one and the underneath collapsed. I decided to compromise and re-build the running gear with 'MW' W irons, Slater wheels and home made brake gear - this being the practical (read "quicker") way to do it. It looks slightly small but is still a very 'tidy' model (the bodies are ply and are sturdy enough as is). Based on this approach I shall do the same for the LNWR Box when I get to that part of the build. Not for the purist maybe but I don't want to have two scales to work with and this way I can standardise on readily availalbe components (my output in modelling terms is already extremely low - without adding further complications!)  Thanks again for some very useful data - I can start looking at making some of that strapping now!  Regards.   
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: LNWR 19' 6" Horse Box
« Reply #3 on: May 27 2009 11:06 »
All that has been written about these is correct.  I provided Danny (D&S) with the information for the 4mm scale kit and I believe Mike May commissioned a few etches in 1/2in scale.  I was told that six were done, though as I know where five are, there may have been more!

The design is very similar to the last design of LNWR horsebox - 21ft, the main differences being that the 19ft 6in has straight sides, and of course the length.  The 21ft version lasted into BR days.  Some had the usual 1in thick rubber blocks between body and chassis removed so at to lower the cantrail just enough for the Southern loading gauge, so they were widely travelled.


Offline IanT

Re: LNWR 19' 6" Horse Box
« Reply #4 on: May 27 2009 17:49 »
Well these 'bits' were previously owned by the late Peter Stroud - but of course Mike May makes so much sense in terms of commissioning this LNWR model - given his happy addiction to the 'Irish Mail'!  :D

So much so - that I've just looked through my collection of photos of Mike's GTG's from summers past that I've been to - and sure enough - there it was, lurking in the corner of a photo I'd taken of Mikes dockside (mainly of his tugboat) back in 2006!

I've cropped out the beastie and posted it below. So I was completely wrong to think I'd never seen one of these before - I had seen it probably many times over but never noticed it before (too busy admiring the overall effect to take in the specifics I guess!)

Anyway, although some people seemed to know all about this particular model - I certainly didn't and finding out has been great fun and I think demonstrates how useful the G3 Forum is. I shall enjoy building her! Thanks everyone for your help with this.   
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.