Legs for Modules

[AndrewW]

Having listened at the AGM to Ian's request for modules, I have looked at the forum and have a question of what sort of support to use for the modules I'm looking at making.

Have googled for some sky hooks but found that to get them it seems I'm required to sent a lot of money to an account in Nigeria. So it's back to old fashioned legs.

I'm looking for something that is cheap (!), light, can be constructed without the need for a full workshop or materials that are difficult to obtain and allow for levelling adjustment to be fitted.

So what advice, please?

Andrew

[MikeWilliams]

Andrew,  I have no personal experience of these, but at Warley last year Michael Heaven's Gauge 3 layout was supported on commercial trestles.  They are steel but not too heavy, strong, cheap and adjustable.  He swore by them.

Will try to find the make and type.

Mike

[MikeWilliams]

Following my earlier note, Michael's St.Ives layout uses something like this:
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/mb110-steel-work-stand
Folds flat but takes the weight of the heaviest Gauge 3 loco - or its operator!
Cost just £12 each.
These are not adjustable, but some are.

Mike

[454]

We need a firm recommendation for cheapo legs for our modules to give a standard height.
The example in the previous reply is value for money & will save a lot of time & effort.

The width is 630mm so our baseboards will rest upon them. Secure fixing needs thought to avoid pushage.

If any MODULERS are reading this it would be a smart idea to co-ordinate the sort of module each is contemplating.
Barry Island in July had crossed my mind.
Connectability should be the key word.

Given that we only have 4 months construction time to get something moving for this project to succeed our ideas ought to be co-ordinated.

Food for thought

Dave
454
Derby

[IanT]

I've used lengths of aluminium section (50 x 25mm) from an old exhibition stand so far, but wooden legs would also do.

The legs sit/slide between two wooden "guides" screwed to the side panels and are secured by two 6mm coach bolts. The guides stop any lengthwise wobble. Dependent on your choice of legs - some cross bracing may be helpful and I've considered 'X' wire bracing for this (one wire per leg - light and it just wraps around the leg in transit).

For height adjustment (+/- 25mm) I've made some 'feet' out of door protectors (round things you screw on the skirting board?). A long 6mm coach bolt is pushed though the rubber foot and secured with a washer and nut. You then have an ajustable 'foot' to screw into your leg of choice. Not fitted them yet (been using packing blocks)

Not got any photos handy - and I'm on the way out but will see what I can do. Anything can be used really - provided it is fairly steady. Oh - and you really only need one pair of legs per module (apart from one end obviously). Fit the legs and bolt the other end of module to the previous module and so on.

Regards,    IanT

[John Witts]

I have used 50 x 25mm wood for the last 5 years as the legs for Warton Road, they are simple to produce and cheap, only extra expense is a leg adjuster that cost £1 per leg.
Total cost of wood no more than £16 plus 16 adjusters for a 40ft layout .

Regards,  John

[IanT]

Sorry for the delay.

Here are the "feet" I made for my module legs. I thought they were door buffers but it seems they are in fact called "Chair Buffers".  Mine are 22mm diameter (and about 12mm deep) and I brought them from Homebase (apparently) in packs of four. I seem to recall that I cleaned them out of stock at the time and as you can see they come in both black & white varieties.

How you screw them in (and what you screw them into) will depend to some extent on what your legs are made of. As I probably will "fill" the ends of my (hollow) aluminium legs with wooden plugs - I was planning to simply drill the plugs through 6mm clearance - and then use another countersunk hole to bang in - or expoxy a 6mm nut. The force is upwards (downwards?), forcing the nut into the wood - so it should be OK.

Anyway, as with most things, there are many ways to do this but this method seemed simple and inexpensive.

Regards,

IanT 

[AndrewW]

Thanks for all who responded to my module leg problem.

I've looked at the various metal trestles and looked at St Ives at Warley but the problems in setting up and their weight prevent me using them. The lightweight ones from Machine Mart are better for a transportable layout but need packing to get the module standard height.

Looking now at the 50 x 25mm timber but with the use of 4or 6mm ply to strengthen the joints and perhaps change the profile to an "I" or "L" profile to increase the strength as my straight boards will be 6 feet long rater than four.

Construction will begin when I've got somewhere to put them but in the meantime I've got the layout to plan, the structures to build and the track to acquire ready. The leg solution is within my skills and I believe they can be attached to the board and be folded up for travel.That helps the travel space and the major plus - you can't leave them behind when you go to an exhibition!

Andrew

[454]

Andrew, hope you  don't mind me asking but what is your reasoning for having 6 feet long modules?

I can understand 6 feet lengths for semi permanent designs. However the weight of the finished entity can stack up when fully equipped with ballasted track. I may be just a bit of an ageing weakling, but singlehanded can manage 3 feet modules like the society recommended standard quite easily. Knowing that fact I cannot imagine handling a 6 feet baseboard section fully built with integral legs. Have you thought this through?

From the transport viewpoint do you intend to use a big van or large box trailer  when you haul these 6 footers to exhibitions?

The reasoning behind three feet modules was that they would fit easily into an ordinary car.

That was my rationale behind my modular layout, the construction of which is described on another thread within this forum.

Cheers
Dave
454

[IanT]

There are some excellent reasons for having longer modules and M01 doesn't preclude them - it simply suggests multiples of n x 900mm. As Dave says, the main reason for the short ones is to enable them to fit in a 'normal' boot.  The extra length eases problems with laying turnouts and other track configurations.

If you have other means of transport and a friend to help then longer modules can be stacked (and with added wheels) can be moved around without too much effort. In some ways this can be more efficient than handling more of the smaller modules individually - but you probably do need a 'stacking' system to aid storage and movement. The Spur II guys seem to do this routinely and there are several examples to be seen in their photo gallery. I have some photos from Torsten (that were intended for the NL) somewhere I'll try to post. 

Regards,

IanT

[AndrewW]

Dave

Thanks for the comment re the length of the board.

I've used modules in N gauge for about 15 years so have had some experience with their design, transportation and exhibiting. To me, the size of G3 needs longer to have a board that will at least take a crossover as the less joints the better. I also believe in stacking in a trolly arrangement so that whilst they need to be loaded/unloaded into a transit sized van, they don't have to be carried long distances across car parks and in halls!

In N Gauge I used to travel to meets with four 4 foot modules, back scenes, trestles and enough stock to set up a shop. Now I no longer have a large estate car and run a VW Polo I've found that the rear space is filled with two locos and a freight train in G3. Therefore the decision is that any show will involve a van hire so I may as well make the boards a length to minimise the joints rather than wonder if I need to take one board to a meeting.

Thanks to Ian for posting the pictures of the trolley arrangement. I intend to use the same but am trying to arrange it that the top board sits in the trolley frame at the correct height so that the trolley replaces the need for legs. 

Andrew

[454]

Andrew,

One reason for me adopting the use of the standard G3S module was not necessarily for exhibition or travelling use but to replace my loft layout. The dismantling of my old layout was necessary as it would not fit through the loft hatch.

The G3S modules fit perfectly into the loft space & can be handled quite reasonably without exertion at my current state of age & health. So am confident that the whole layout may be assembled & constructed fully within my home without disturbing SWMBO. I thought that abandonment of the loft layout was the sensible thing to do but after assembling the modules & realising their assembly/disassembly advantages it became obvious to me that the loft will be the home of this layout & not holed up in the garage awaiting trips out into the big wide world, seldom to be played with.

For transportability my Fiat Panda is well capable of taking several locos, coaches & goods trucks plus several points & over 120 feet of track as creating the table top railway at Barry Island proved. Sadly, the TTR cannot be set up at home & has to be stored remotely elsewhere which is a bit of a disappointment.

There lies the dilemma. TTR with light transport OR multi-modular with big van single handed OR multi-modular with a team of members using their private cars. Guess it's just down to logistics dependant on the circumstances at the appropriate moment & what level of expenses, if any, can be claimed.

Dave
454

[AndrewW]

Dave

I think you got to the nub of it - everything is a compromise.

I know that a big layout is expensive and even a simple circle is 24 feet across in Gauge 3 so the shows become limited that could take a layout 12' by 48'. For such big layouts I'm prepared (for the right show) to accept a partial refund on the expenses and put the rest of the cost down to enjoying a weekend playing with my trains (purists please change that to operating a model railway in a prototype manner). I fully agree with the idea of smaller modules that can be easily transported by a majority of members to a get together but I'm fairly isolated where I am so I'm looking "complete"

Just getting into Gauge 3 from N so it's still causing me problems of size concept but that should go away this weekend when I stand and watch some of my stuff running on St Ives at Swindon. Understand a lot more done to the layout since Warley and very sad Mike Heaven won't be there to see the enjoyment it brings.

Andrew

[454]

Andrew,

Let me know when you have a 12 x 48 footer I will drive the length & breadth of the country to run my Brit on that one at my expense anytime. (Subject to serviceability see separate thread).

There are times when expenses should be accepted in full. i.e. large commercial shows. However, small events like church halls etc & local shows within a few miles from home incur very little in expenses & as such is an opportunity to enjoy playing trains. I make no apology for admitting that I play trains.

The operation in a prototypical manner method escapes me even though well meaning attempts to do so often get thwarted by enthusiastic absent mindedness as there is a tendency often to lapse. Especially when being distracted. I remember at Warley show on Blackgang I was hooking up a train of coaches to the loco on the departure road in the station. I was fumbling due to my lack of stereoscopic vision. Looking up there was a crowd of about 3 dozen people about 4 deep craning their necks to see what I was doing the presence of whom I had not been aware of until some bright spark chirped up " Should you not be hooking up the loco to the train using the loco's own coupling mister"? My reply was that I couple up the one that fits & is easiest to get at. vac pipes in the way & all that. No pressure.

Prototypical operation how far do you take it? Speeded up timetable on a branch that may see one train a week never mind a day. Service akin to Waterloo on Blackgang is FUN! However, make it prototypical & it probably would make you do the biggest yawn ever, that is if Blackgang ever existed prototypically.

So play trains & enjoy your gauge 3, it can be fun & fun is what it is all about. After all it is what you make it.

Dave
454

[blagdon]

Dave, the 'bright spark' commenting on how one should couple an engine to its train was probably not even a 'modeller', let alone someone who had any experience in working with screw/3-link couplings on model railways. Their sort seem to enjoy making loud comments at exhibitions and heritage railways, some can be quite fun when for example they describe to everybody a Whitaker's single line tablet catcher as a TPO mail pouch despatcher.

Totally agree that we all do our own thing when 'playing' trains and the main thing is to enjoy the hobby.

Ian the Gauge '3' Pirate