Thinking again about my end to end garden project.
I'm thinking of using grey board for the 9m straight section and the ladder construction in brown for the curved. The ladder version will not have a board fixed to it's surface therefore, the Cliff Barker track will need to be fixed directly to the side rails. I've read the various topics on using re-cycled plastics and am happy about the grey but not sure that the brown will not distort. Filcris state that their ladder section material is all made from the brown variety. Does anyone have any further views on the brown sort? I have sent an email to Filcris expressing my concerns.
Regards
Jon
I should have said that the alternative will be marine ply but not sure of it's 'weathering' qualities nor longevity.
Jon
Personally, I now use only the grey "ecoboard" as a track base, secured to a sub-structure of timber 4x2 (minimum) section which braces it against sagging.
My initial test section was to have used the brown planks but I found it too flexible, prone to excessive "softening" and expansion when heated by the sun. The "posts" went "banana" shaped in the summer Sun.
The brown "ladder" method seems to suit some (see forum posts by "454") but did not work for me.
My construction methods are extensively explained starting here..... http://lakes-pages.com/gauge3.co.uk/G3Forum/index.php?topic=1048.0 and the following (linked) topics.
See also http://lakes-pages.com/gauge3.co.uk/G3Forum/index.php?topic=1128.0
Regards,
John.
Jon,
Your post is about plastic but you mention marine ply. As part of my carriage restoration project I've had a piece of 3/8in mahogany faced marine ply laying in the garden for about 13 years now as a test. It has warped because it has deliberately been supported unevenly, but there is no rot and no delamination. It has not been coated with anything at all.
But please don't think I am advocating ply. If (when?) I start work in the garden I'll use plastic.
Mike
Mike,
I've priced marine ply against plastic and if I add about £20 for delivery of the plastic, it works out about the same.
I've also thought about ripping down some of the ply to make say 50mm strips and use this to make ladders for the curved section. I haven't tried it but, I should think that 50 x 18 strips of ply should bend fairly easily.
Track work has come under my scrutiny too and if I have done my sums correctly, Cliff Barker is cheaper than GRS by about £100. I couldn't find ready made track on the GRS site so, I used to prices for the parts to make it yourself. Lots to think about.
The 'test' on your sheet of marine ply sounds promising too.
Jon
Jon,
if you were thinking of turnouts, unless they've changed their policy in the last year, all GRS turnouts are built using LGB rail, which doesn't have the same profile as GRS' own track. I'm glad I changed to Cliff Barker's track.
One last question, folks,
If I were to use Cliff Barker's ready made track, at what spacing should I pin/screw the track at? I notice that Cliff's track has two fixing holes on every sleeper and that would be a lot of pins/screws.
Regards
Jon
I fix mine with a small screw approx. every 6th sleeper (alternating sides on straight track, on inside of curve only on curved track.
I don't use the holes provided by Cliff, I drill a small hole in the sleeper outside of rails.
John.
Thanks, John, I'll keep a note of that.
Regards
Jon
I've decided on 18mm ply for my track base which will sit on London Metal Brackets, screwed to a wall. I've fixed one bracket and was going to space them out at 400mm centres but this now looks too close to me. Has anyone any ideas on how far apart, I should space my brackets without having the ply sag?
Jon
Are you having any bracing under the ply at all Jon?
Without any extra bracing, I honesty think that even at 400mm centres, 18mm ply will sag over time.
I built my single line garden railway six years ago and in that time it has endured 6" of snow on more than one occasion, 80mph winds, torrential rain that flooded part of my garden and ambient temps between -18deg C and 38degC. They do take quite a battering and I'm pleased I went all belt and braces on mine because it has rewarded with me with no issues what so ever. It also provides a sterling service as a raised walkway and sun tanning hot spot for the local cats who use it more than I do!
I'm happy to be proved wrong, but I don't think any ply will survive dead level, long term, outdoors in those conditions.
I would suggest putting in a couple of stringers, aligned with the holes in your mounting brackets, then screwing the top surface down onto that. Depending on the stringer size and baseboard thickness, you should be able to exceed 400mm quite easily then. I run posts at 4' intervals, but my top surface is laminated marine ply (2 x 12mm thick, 110mm wide) on two stringers(each 18x55mm and joined together every 300mm). If I had gone for 300mm wide track base, I'd have dropped the support posts down to 3 foot intervals and increased the stringer height to 75mm.
Steve
Dear Steve
Thanks for the tips. My base board will be 150mm wide and I was going to put a single stringer 20x45 screwed to the underside 'between' the brackets. What I could do now, is to put two stringers screwed to the ply but still between the brackets. My idea of between the brackets was to beef up the 18mm ply where it wasn't supported and so try to avoid any sag :-\.
Did you put any waterproofing on top of your base?
Regards
Jon
Hi Jon
I covered the base with roofing felt which was stuck in place using the brushable tar sold for shed roofs. All the wood had been given a couple of coats of Ronseal fence paint beforehand.
If you were going to apply two stringers, I would have thought that one running along the front edge in longer sections would perhaps look a little better as well as giving slightly improved rigidity - the second stringer being hidden behind and applied as you currently plan. As long as its good, straight wood for the stringers it will work out fine, I would probably not go more than 600mm between brackets for stringers that size though.
Steve
Dear Steve
Just one more thing :)
Did you fix your stretchers to the edge of the base or to the underside? My original idea was to have short pieces fixed underneath the base.
Regards
Jon
Morning Jon
In answer to your question, I fixed my stretchers to the underside of the base.
Having read yesterdays reply, my suggestion would have been better described as fixing the first stringer to the underside of the base, but level with the front edge, giving a slightly cleaner look and with enough room for the brackets.
I've just remembered that a very out of date build thread shows the construction of my garden line on the G1 forum, I have posted a link below as it shows what I did
http://g1mra.myfastforum.org/A_Simple_Garden_Line_about155.html (http://g1mra.myfastforum.org/A_Simple_Garden_Line_about155.html)
It also shows how much the memory fades, the distance between stringer joining blocks was actually 400mm, not 300mm. The planting has improved immeasurably since then, in fact its difficult to spot any posts now (see attached photo from earlier this year) :)
I also added strips of ply to the outside edge of the baseboard to create a channel as at one point the line was fully ballasted. Local wild life and the weather put paid to that experiment although it looked fantastic for a while.
Hope that helps
Steve
Dear Simon
I looked at your link and all is clear now. I wished that I had seen it before I had conjured up my own scheme but never mind, I'll stay with my brackets now. I like the way that you have planted a hedge, (is it Box?) hard up against the track, I think it works very well. Did you use the felt to cover just the top surfaces of the base boards or did you extend it down and over the edges/sides? I'm going to have some fun trying to bend 18mm ply around my curves to act as a stretcher but, I'll give it a go. I'm going to try and load a photo but they don't always work for me.
You can just see where I've started fixing the brackets to the wall on the left. The wall is straight for about 9m and then the curve starts for another say, 8m. I'm going to cut the curved bases with a jig saw after first marking out with patterns cut from pieces of 4' wide cardboard that I just happen to have.
Regards
Jon
P.S. The photo download didn't work
It says that the picture is 1.52mb but I don't know how to make it smaller ???
Jon
Jon,
If you're using Windows, you should be able to right click on your picture file (in the directory), then pick 'Resize Pictures'. You should then get a selection of sizes to choose from. Try the smallest first.
Hopefully that should get it small enough.
Andy
Hi Jon
90% of the hedge is Lonicera Nitida, albeit a mix of three different varieties, you can pick out the different colours in the photo on the previous page. I used box in a couple of places so I could compare how the two plants fare in my garden. The box is much slower growing, it takes at least twice as long, probably three times as long to as the Lonicera to reach the trackbed (nominally 22" off the ground) and fill out properly. Once it has done that though, it doesn't require trimming every three weeks like the Lonicera.
That said, I would just use Lonicera next time, I enjoy being able to sculpt and shape the hedge next to the track and I have had everything from embankments leading up to the track to the state now where I have small cuttings instead. The Lonicera also allows you to grow and shape trees which amuses me no end, its like indoor modelling but seeing what nature gives you to work with instead.
As for the felt, it was cut flush with the edge of the trackbed for the first year. At the start of the second year I added the strips of ply to the side and ran silicon sealant along the joint between the new ply side and the felt to create a small well for the ballasting. If you want to fold it over the sides then you should really radius the edge of the trackbed and be prepared to heat the felt as you fold it over. I have a friend who did exactly that and the felt has survived eight years and counting...
Steve
here's Jon's picture
I think that most of this thread should be in Track Laying/Making but nearly there now.
One final question. What sort of gap should be allowed between ends of track to allow for expansion? Or, is it not something we worry about?
Jon