Are Slaters coming to the AGM?
Does anyone know if they will have the wooden PO wagon kits available?
Thanks
Kelvin
Hi Kelvin,
Slaters aren't listed as having a stand, But John Taylor ('Uncommon Kits') often carries some Slaters stock.
Andy
i contacted slaters to see if they may be able to do a write up of the new wagon for me - no reply ! ash
My understanding is that the P.O. wagons are delayed and a Midland wagon will come out first - any day now. They have never yet been to the AGM, though David has been at least once as a visitor.
Mike
Does anyone know who are the dealers attending this year? It would be nice to know how deep a pocket to bring. The "bring and buy" stall is my first port of call, but it would be nice to know who are potentially "there" to ask questions to.
Regards
Ralph
Th G3S website has a Traders list Ralph... there may be other Traders coming too but if so, I've not been told about them.
https://www.gauge3.org.uk/g3-spring-event-and-agm
Regards,
IanT
All I get is a huge blank area and then photos at the bottom?
Regards
Ralph
Ralph,
Text section is a javascript routine (see page coding source), have you disabled execution in your security settings?
Regrds,
John.
I get - Traders include ————
Blank page, photos at bottom - Ralph is right
Richard, Ralph.
It displays correctly for me in both Chrome and IE11 browsers..... it requires execution of scripts to be permitted in the browser's security settings.
Regards,
John.
Displays OK for me, but here is the list copied and pasted from the website:
The Gauge '3' Society's Model Railway Gathering and AGM
will be held this year at the Rufus Centre
Steppingley Road, Flitwick, Bedfordshire, MK45 1AH
on Saturday 23rd February 10am - 4pm
Featuring
The 'Rundle' & 'Chalfont' G3 Layouts
Modelling Demonstrations
Model Displays - Locomotives & Stock
Bring & Buy Stand & Newsletter Back Issues
Refreshments Available
Free Parking for Guests & Exhibitors
?Trade Stands currently include:
Buxton Model Works
Cliff Barker
Cromford Designs
Curlew Coaches - Tim Kraay
Garfield Designs - Andy Boothman Brass Kits
Ieuan Lewis Bookstall
John Taylor Models
Kippo Models
Marston Models - Gavin Bashford
Model Engineers Laser
Peter Korzilius' Models
Peter Wood Wagons
Walsall Model Industries
Williams Models
Woodbury Models - Andy Mould
Uncommon Kits
?Member Show Donation £3.00
Visitors Welcome - Non-Member Show Entrance (Family Ticket) £5.00
Mike,
You just beat me to it!
John.
Not on my iPhone it doesnt
Ian Turner will need to check with Wix (who host the G3S site and provided the application he uses to construct the pages) to see whether it can be made "compliant" with the Apple/Smartphone browsers.
As an example this forum is "WAP2" compliant which enables you to view on smartphones.
Regards,
John.
It doesn't work on my Linux Box... I use Debian 9.6 and FireFox. I will shut everything down and hibernate it until the AGM.
Regards
Ralph
I just ran the page https://www.gauge3.org.uk/g3-spring-event-and-agm
through the W3C validator routine and it threw up 558 parse errors.
I don't have the time (nor will power) to run through them all but several relate to CSS (cascading style sheet) and "missing attribute" errors and the problem could be hidden amongst them.
Some browsers may be more tolerant to errors than others, which could account for the ability of some to see the content while leaving others "blind".
"Over to you", Ian T!
Regards,
John.
John,
It opens OK with my Apple iPad.
By the way, I am an agreed late addition to the trader count, being Apple Tree Railway, offering gearboxes and BR Mk1 bogie kits.
Tim
Tim,
Which browser are you using .... is it Google Chrome?
Regards,
John.
The other error in the list is regarding "demonstrators" it should read demonstrator. As from last week there was only one table available, not three as agreed last October.
Rgds
Richard
Roy said that I could have a table and three chairs for my demonstrations of software and my machines?
Regards
Ralph
Quote from: John Candy on Feb 21 2019 20:41
Tim,
Which browser are you using .... is it Google Chrome?
Regards,
John.
No John, Apple Safari.
Quote from: John Candy on Feb 21 2019 20:21
I just ran the page https://www.gauge3.org.uk/g3-spring-event-and-agm
through the W3C validator routine and it threw up 558 parse errors.
I don't have the time (nor will power) to run through them all but several relate to CSS (cascading style sheet) and "missing attribute" errors and the problem could be hidden amongst them.
Some browsers may be more tolerant to errors than others, which could account for the ability of some to see the content while leaving others "blind".
"Over to you", Ian T!
Well this is what happens when you employ a well-meaning amateur John. The 'Wix' system was selected by Liz (and initially set-up by her) and I just took over the day-to-day running of the site. From what I have seen thus far, it was a good choice by Liz as it is a fairly straightforward system to learn & use, which would probably not be the case if a more "professional" (e.g. complex) system had been chosen - probably needing a professional IT person to manage it (which I am not). I might also mention that we are receiving quite regular queries via the site (we've had three this week) - so whilst perhaps not perfect, it does seem to be helping G3 to reach out.
Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge, time or multiple platforms available to resolve these matters and can only check the site through the 'window' of my own W10 laptop. I did recently do some 'phone' checks using my wifes iPhone and this also seemed OK - my own Android phone being very long in the tooth now. So my apologies to those who cannot use/view the G3S site but that may be how things will have to stay. In my defence, I would remind folk that my hourly rate is very reasonable. ;)
Hope to say "Hallo" to everyone tomorrow.
Regards,
IanT
Ian,
I wasn't taking a "dig" at you, simply trying to explain why certain equipment may be having difficulties displaying pages.
I explained that the tools you are using are those provided by the hosting company and those (being "free") are always "rough and ready" when compared with specialist compilers purchased separately.
I ran the W3C analysis simply to see if there was a quickly identifiable problem but the error report was so long that I gave up on that idea!
Regards,
John.
Don't worry, I didn't take it as such John - just pointing out the limitations of having a volunteer workforce.
Regards,
IanT
Returning to the subject of this thread(!) I saw the test build of the new Slaters Midland end-door open wagon recently. Expect others have also seen it now, but laser cut plywood, cast brass separate bolts fixing etched brass strapping and the underframe fittings and brakes the same as their van and brake van.
Looks very nice and worth the wait.
Mike
Bought both types of Slater's open wagons at Telford yesterday. Kits look good and instructions seem straight forward enough but I can't seem to find the nuts and bolts that go into the under frame. This is true for both boxes so wondering if 'they're supposed to be missing' as they've assumed the modeller has a supply in his spares box......
I bought one (side door only) on Saturday.
I'm missing the nuts and bolts for the axleguards, also the end stanchions and the wire.
Filled in the Customer Response form (which was in the box) and emailed it to Slaters this morning.
Neither the stanchions or the axleguard fixings are in the packing list.
David told me it was a rush to get the kits packed, following the flood damage.
Hopefully a call or return of the form will get you the required bits too.
I agree, they look like a nice kit with several improvements over the covered goods.
Andy
Gents
Having seen the photos of the aftermath of their flood (think 40 days/nights, Ark, two by two....) I'm surprised they had anything for sale at all.
I can only commend David and his staff for the efforts that must have been made for them to produce & produce what they did, for the weekend.
Having seen the development of the G3 Midland wagon over the last nine months (and it's continued build progress/development over the number of shows that it has appeared at) I found myself resisting the temptation to put my hand in my pocket, to buy yet ANOTHER Midland wagon. I don't doubt that I will succumb sooner, rather than later - but, how many MIDLAND vehicles does a layout need (this is rhetorical question, not an invite to all you Midland bods to peep over the parapet).
Who knows, one day there might be a resurgence of the L&Y (or the Greater Midland as we like to call it (ducks...!!!) ;D
Barry
True Barry, but you have Mr.Mould's L&Y van kit and somebody was going to do a tintab ....
Look forward to seeing the new Slaters wagons and will certainly try one, even though I also have four different Midland vehicles already.
Mike
Yes, Mike, Andy M is to applauded for his L&Y van (& rightly so).
I'm trying (along with John T) to get him to produce a 20ton L&Y Break van (ran pre Grouping, Grouping & into BR days) but he's not biting..... will just have to keep talking to him....
Oh, by the way, the reference to 'Greater Midland' in my previous post should have read 'Greater L&Y' (I know, the moment has gone......) any attempt to go back in to my post to correct my error proved impossible.
Barry
Quote from: Andy B on Sep 02 2019 15:26
I bought one (side door only) on Saturday.
I'm missing the nuts and bolts for the axleguards, also the end stanchions and the wire.
Filled in the Customer Response form (which was in the box) and emailed it to Slaters this morning.
Neither the stanchions or the axleguard fixings are in the packing list.
David told me it was a rush to get the kits packed, following the flood damage.
Hopefully a call or return of the form will get you the required bits too.
I agree, they look like a nice kit with several improvements over the covered goods.
Andy
Ah the side door type is also the one i've started on and yes checking it likewise is missing the stanchions as well, I'll go ahead a little further with the assembly to make sure I'm not missing anything else before I send the form off ta.
As Barry mentioned the flooding incident did look quite heartbreaking so yes think I can let this go without banging the drums but will reiterate it seems a cracking kit even without considering the cheap price tag. Unlike with some of the other laser kits out there woodgrain for all the exterior pieces goes the right way and the pieces fit together very nicely :)
(https://i.ibb.co/4gbt0vG/IMG-0784.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4gbt0vG)
I'm a little rusty with MR wagons and didn't take a photo of the display one foolishly but is the interior supposed to be bare? The instructions loosely imply grey all over except for below the frames,
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Midland-Railway-D302-5-plank-mineral-wagon/3274887?id=3274887&slug=Midland-Railway-D302-5-plank-mineral-wagon
https://www.hattons.co.uk/298208/kitbuilt_kb575_kb_6_plank_open_wagon_with_sleeper_load_in_mr_grey_pre_owned_kit_built/stockdetail.aspx
while other than the mention of black iron work on some Essery's Midland Wagon book is coy but quickly looking about at models online it seems they were.
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co467986/model-midland-railway-wagon-model-wagon
Is this a truism for all periods?
Steve
Had an apologetic email back from David at Slaters yesterday evening, and the bits should be in the post today.
So he should be anticipating similar requests from the others sold so far.
Andy
I'm building one of the Slater's Midland end door wagons and am a little confused over what should be showing on the inside of the wagon when it comes to bolt heads. The instructions say that the bolt heads were flush but flush with what? Were the heads recessed into the planking or left proud? The castings supplied are a nut on a shaft so, if the nuts go on the outside, surely a head should be fitted on the inside. Any comments would be gratefully received.
I may file the thread from the casting, insert from the inside and place a nut on the outside which should sort out the 'look' of the thing but, I'll await to hear from those that are far more knowledgeable than myself.
Jon
There are others here who are far more expert than myself when it comes to wagons Jon (let alone the Midland Railway types) but as a general rule of thumb, I assume that a wagon will have the nuts on the outside (for ease of maintenance), together with a washer (unless there is a washer plate) and that a coach bolt has been used - i.e. there will be a round head on the inside. These may well have been almost flush with the inside but you would have been able to see them...
This was most certainly not always the case but if I don't have anything to tell me otherwise - photos etc - then it's not a bad starting assumption. Sometimes of course - a wagon had some nuts on the inside and also some on the outside (just to be awkward). You can that on this GNR wagon, although it's impossible to know if this is original or happened during maintenance or possibly restoration.
Regards,
Ian
(https://i.ibb.co/0ywmntn/Milestones-2013-015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0ywmntn)
Just looking at my post again - and I should have been clearer that coach bolts were only used where they went directly into wood - not if there was a metal surface underneath the head...that would have been a bolt head...
Thinking about it - this is quite a large subject in it's own right Jon, too big really for generalities - so the best thing might be for you to read (what I consider to be) one of the best articles on the subject of wagon modelling (albeit in 4mm). I can't post it here - but I will email you some scans. I think you will find them useful reading...
Regards,
IanT
From studying the drawings heavily during my scratchbuild, it appears where there was ironwork on the inside, of which the D299 and derrived designs had plenty, there were countersunk headed bolts. Im not even sure there were any coach bolts in the actual body as every bolt used an iron on each side!
Now if these bolts differed from the GA, possibly they were different.
Trevor
That makes very interesting reading. Heads sated as being 'flush on the inside', can only mean countersunk in my opinion.
Andy B, what do you think?
Jon
I haven't looked at this particular Midland wagon Jon and (as stated) have no deep expertise in this area either.
But I am familiar with some aspects of mechanical engineering and wonder if the 'words' being used to describe some items is causing bit of confusion. A traditional coach (or carriage) bolt was primarily designed to join wood to metal. They consisted of a domed head, with a square section beneath and then a smooth shaft with a short threaded end. They were designed to be pushed into a drilled hole and then pulled fully into the hole by "nutting up". Coach bolts pre-dated the railways, as they were used on horse-drawn wagons and coaches/carriages - as were square headed bolts by the way. Very early versions would have had a nut made to match the bolt - by a blacksmith of course.
With regards a "flush" bolt, there was a specialist version of the coach bolt, called a Plough bolt (used to attach plough shears) but I don't think these were used on the railways.
I've certainly seen reference to "c/sk" bolts on drawings but I have always assumed that this referred to coach bolts - as I'm not sure what else they could be? So where I see that, I model a 'domed' head bolt (rather than a square or hex head one). One of the problems of modelling 'open' railway wagons, is that interior photos are rarely available.
In the photo of the GNR wagon I attached earlier, you can see a range of bolt 'useage', including what I believe to be coach bolts set in the side knee. I'm fairly sure a blacksmith would have used a square drift to make the holes on this ironwork - thereby locking the heads on insertion (nuts then on the inside of course). You can also see domed heads at the L/H inside-end (which hold the [wooden] end stanchions) which were nutted on the outside with washers.
So that's my take on things - it's quite possible someone will tell me I'm talking complete tosh - but I do try to think about how things were originally made and what I've explained here makes sense from an engineering point of view. However, I'll let Andy or Mike give you their more expert opinions.
:-)
Regards,
IanT
Nicely put Ian. That particular GNR wagon has had a lot of restoration and I wouldn't rely on any preserved wagon for small details. Milestones Museum is however well worth a visit - it is superb.
Mike
Ian
I totally agree with everything that you have said. However, I did find this drawing of the MR wagon with an end door and this detail shows some countersunk bolts/machine screws. The actual wagon may not have been built using these but it's interesting to see that they have been drawn in. Elsewhere, the drawing doesn't show this level of detail as the chosen elevations aren't conducive to this level of detail.
This should be larger
Jon
It's a bit confusing as the heads of the fixings securing a strap to the side of the wagon are shown almost touching the countersunk heads.
Jon
No, they are certainly drawn as 'proper' c/sk bolts Jon. So maybe I'm just completely confusing you about this detail...
I'd "Ask Andy" - as I'm sure he knows a lot more about Midland wagons than I ever will. Raises some interesting questions though. How did you stop them turning when doing/undoing the bolt?
A screw slot seems most likely? I recall discussing with someone whether it was worth while filling (with solder) screw slots on very small roundhead BA bolts, as paint usually did the job quite well enough. Maybe we shouldn't have been trying! :)
Be interesting to find out...
Regards,
IanT
Hi Chaps,
Sorry, have been a bit busy over the weekend.
Jon is closest to the money. Ian - I think you've got too hung up on the 'coach bolt' thing and dismissed the right answer.......
Flat countersunk square neck bolt appears to be the technical name - sometimes known as a 'plough bolt' (or 'plow bolt' for our transatlantic brethren). The Midland just referred to them as Countersunk Bolts; the forge must have turned them out in their thousands.
The attached drawing extract is from the 12T coal wagon body details, but the same use of CSK square holes goes right back to the earliest 'low' (3 plank) wagons.
(https://i.ibb.co/wW2TKVS/Square-csk-holes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wW2TKVS)
I'll try a bigger extract next time - just worked out how the images work (not attachments....)
Andy
Ok, sorry to cause any confusion, I was aware of plough bolts in agriculture but didn't think they were used on railway wagons - now I know better!
For the curious, you can see some here....
http://www.blacksmithbolt.com/store/c/97-Plow-Bolts.aspx
My apologies Jon/Trevor
IanT
(https://i.ibb.co/SyXwnHV/July-2007-006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SyXwnHV)
I couldn't find this photo before when I was actually looking for it - but then of course, it turned up...
Nothing to do with Midland wagons (or c/sk bolts) I'm afraid. Just a shot I took at Fawley Hill a while ago. Not sure what the wagon is (was? - it's in quite a poor state) but it does show that often elusive interior detail, as well as the (now infamous) coach bolts - one of which can be clearly seen hanging at the top of the door hinge.
That's it - I'll shut up now! :-)
Apologies again for any confusion I've caused...
Regards,
IanT
I've not bought one of these kits yet but, just to clarify, the bolt castings are all the right length? or do you have to cut them off neatly to the right length?
Mike
Mike
The bolt castings come on a sprue with some for the solebar and some smaller ones for the wagon strapping. It doesn't matter about the length for the solebar bolts as the cut ends can't be seen. However, the smaller will need to be trimmed to the correct length or filed to length when in place. The holes in the straps have been etched a little too large and once the bolt/nut casting has been put in place, may look a little odd as there is no head on the bolt to hide the edges of the hole on the inside. I won't have this problem as I have bought some 16BA countersunk screws and nuts and will fit these to all of the straps hoping that paint, when I get to that stage, will fill the slots in the screws. I'll save the nut and bolt castings for another project. If it is planned that the wagon is to be filled with coal then, none of the above matters as all will be hidden by the coal. Mine won't have a coal load hence the screws.
Jon
If anyone has completed one of these yet can we please see some photos? Slaters, with their exposure to other scales, has the potential to be the most important manufacturer in Gauge 3 and I really hope these are as good as they seem to be.
Mike
Mike
Got one of each type on the bench at the moment, currently inserting the 'nuts/bolts' into a plethora of holes in the strapping/wooden sides & ends & sole bars - it's not a quick job, especially as I keep feeding them to the carpet monster. Going right off the odour of CA. As Jon eluded to in an earlier message some of the holes have been slightly over etched and the 'nuts' fall into the holes so they have to be pull out to sit proud of the surface. Talking with David this appears to have affected the first (or an early) batch, be interesting to know if later batches are similarly affected..... anybody?
Early days yet but me & John T (or should that be John T & I) are trying to convince David that it would be a really, really, really good idea to do a long w/b L&Y open wagon, idea is that the Diagram 63, end & side door wagon could be relatively easy to convert into a Diag 55 side door only wagon (or that might be vice versa with the Diag numbers), same running gear on both & very little to modify for interchangeability. Anyway, as I say, early days......
Trying to get something ready to bring along to the AGM.
Barry
Thanks Barry. Gary (of this parish) won't thank you for suggesting an L&Y wagon - he's just done springs, axleboxes and buffers for that and I am sure Slaters would do them all over again.
Mike
Don't think Gary will care one way or t'other...... But Gavin might be a bit miffed.....
win some lose some.
The more kits and parts the better. Have just finished the L&Y goods buffers as well!
Gavin
Here are a couple of pictures of my attempt waiting for it's transfers. I don't think that I'm going to have much luck trying to get a transfer over that diagonal strap but never say never....
I was thinking about the buying of this wagon and I can't for the life of me remember exactly why I bought it. May be a combination of things, not sure.
Jon
Well, I had a go at applying the transfers and failed miserably so, I shall start putting the wagon back together without them. Talking of the Midland transfers as supplied with the kit, and I'm no expert, I think that the M and R are too big. The photos in R J Essery's Midland wagon book Volume 1, show the initials as three planks high whereas the Slaters overlap the three planks by a third. At least, the transfers that I have do.
Jon
Here is the finished wagon sans transfers. I did take the brake rod etch apart, cleaned up the rods and reassembled them as separate rods. I also used one of Mike William's brake actuators to make the brakes work.
Jon
This should be with the above post
Jon
i'm having the same trouble with the bolts, they look as if when painted they will not be noticed, and yes some even drop through the strapping as the hole is a bit big. i've been adding the strapping first using pins to locate in place and then clamping the strap and pulling the pins out before glue cures. 16ba bolts sound a bit too finnicky for me, as i struggle with 14ba on keeper plates. i am even tempted, not being too particular about fine detail to even cut the pins to length and use them looking like a coach bolt? here's a pic of the tiny bolt head, next to the pin head.
(https://i.ibb.co/VwqD7cH/P1020285.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VwqD7cH)