Mike Williams has a thread on this forum about the background to the Picnic Saloon kit. This one is complementary to it and is about the construction. I collected the kit from Mike at the G3 meeting in September. First impressions: detailed and comprehensive. It comes in a nice strong box plenty big enough for the finished model, and comprises laser cut steel sections for the underframe, etched brass body sides and ends and various bits and pieces, resin cast roof and internals, brass castings, whitemetal castings, Slaters wheels ... Mike says there are over 400 components and I'll take his word, I'm not about the count them. Not a quick kit, then, and probably not one for the beginner.
(https://i.ibb.co/KXq8nX8/IMG-20211030-120159995.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KXq8nX8)
(https://i.ibb.co/KLW4tZ0/IMG-20211030-121350383.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KLW4tZ0)
There are also 20 pages of instruction. Not exactly step by step instructions, more a description of the prototype, kit and building of the kit. I found that reading a page or two ahead was definitely a good idea because it helped me to understand what I was about to do, and often influenced the choices I was making. A few more drawings and photos would be helpful, but so far nothing has brought me to a complete stop.
First I assembled the underframe using soft solder. On Mike's advice, the parts were placed on, but not soldered to, the floor, to hold them in place. The plastic tape was to prevent flux getting on the floor. Rust is always a problem when soldering steel and I have no good solution to that one either.
(https://i.ibb.co/3cQLyWd/IMG-20211031-153026178.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3cQLyWd)
Next step was to attach the hornguides. Rivet holes exist in the components, but Mike recommends using rivets only for locating purposes and soldering. I found that the rivets are a pretty good fit and decided to rely on them.
(https://i.ibb.co/5hrdTJ7/IMG-20211031-174422353.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5hrdTJ7)
(https://i.ibb.co/QKBrRSq/IMG-20211031-180450389.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QKBrRSq)
This is a good time to introduce my rivet squeezer which made it easy. It's not my idea, I got it from Roger who posts on the ProBoards forum.
(https://i.ibb.co/BGJd5tf/IMG-20211031-180744326.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BGJd5tf)
The springs and hanger components are all cast in brass and required little cleaning up. The kit contains rivets for securing the various parts together, but I used brass wire of the same diameter that I had in stock because, leaving it long it provides something to hold on to while soldering everything together. The assembly was rather flexible and floppy until I could get it soldered to the frame. Forceps proved useful for holding everything in place but I did find that the frame cross-members made it difficult to get the soldering iron in everywhere. In retrospect, it would have been easier to complete each frame with the hornblocks, springs, and steps before soldering them to the headstocks and stretchers.
(https://i.ibb.co/mN33qFy/IMG-20211104-105840437.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mN33qFy)
So far so good. Next up will be the headstock overlays and the brake gear.
(https://i.ibb.co/9GRwstL/IMG-20211104-164331137.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9GRwstL)
Nick
Nick
Mike W makes excellent kits should be an enjoyable build. When soldering steel I clean up the join with pumice powder and a toothbrush, it gets rid of the flux and cleans the steel, you can get a bag of pumice on e-bay the source of all things useful.
Mike
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the tip. Over many years I have tried just about everything except that, so my order for pumice powder is imminent.
Nick
Nick
Once I have soldered up a structure I give it a good scrub with pumice and water, it cleans the joins and as it is a light abrasive it's a good key for primer.
I used to use Vim but no one stocks it anymore!
Mike
That's interesting Mike. I assume you use a fairly course grade. I see it comes in 36 or 60 mesh - would you recommend 36?
Like the progress Nick. Unfortunately Windows7 users don't appear to be able to see photographs on the forum anymore, so I've not seen them. A Windows10 upgrade will, alas, be costly.
Mike
Mike,
I was not aware of there being a problem.
Is it the "attachments", the "added" images or both?
Below are, firstly, an "added" photo (a Coal Tank), followed by an "attachment" (GWR 2251 class under construction).
Can you see either image?
John.
(https://i.ibb.co/wC6jhXF/x-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wC6jhXF)
Thank you John. I can see the brass engine 2257a!
Mike
Mike,
You are able to see the "attachment", so the problem is not with the forum but with the ibb.co website, which is being used to host the larger images.
Can you see the Coal Tank when you click on this http://ibb.co/wC6jhXF ?
John.
No John. If its a Windows & problem I may be the only one, so don't go to a lot of trouble just for me.
Mike
For those with computers that don't run pre-Cambrian operating systems, here are some more photos.
The headstocks are a steel underlay and etched brass overlays. Everything went together, except that there were no lamp brackets, just lugs where they should go. I made them up out of scrap etch material. Not a biggie.
(https://i.ibb.co/f1MGj5r/IMG-20211123-130403587.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f1MGj5r)
The buffer bodies are whitemetal castings so I am leaving them until I'm totally sure that the soldering iron won't have to go anywhere near them. The photo also shows the steps in place on the frames. My logbook has nothing to say about them so I suppose they went in place just as they should.
Here's an interesting feature. There is a little resin cast block on each end of the headstock. The instructions say that they represent cast iron blocks added to make the steel channel headstocks look like planks of wood. I'm not doubting Mike who is an LNWR coach expert and has had plenty of opportunity to inspect the restored coach at Quainton, but why? Who would notice and be concerned about it? Is it the completely pointless feature it appears to be?
(https://i.ibb.co/M9Cd89q/IMG-20211123-130456893.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M9Cd89q)
And, yes, there is plenty of surface rust to deal with.
Nick
Mike,
It seems it is possible to upgrade from Win7 to Win10 for free ...... and it is legal.
https://www.howtogeek.com/509087/how-to-upgrade-from-windows-7-to-windows-10-for-free/
You will need to check your PC's spec (RAM size and HDD space) to ensure it meets the Microsoft requirements for Win10.
Incidentally, which browser are you using and is it the latest release?
John.
Thank you John. Its the cost of upgrading AutoCAD that's putting me off!
Yes Nick, there seems to be no point at all in the cast iron blocks on the ends of the headstocks, purely cosmetic! It was however only ten years earlier that underframes were painted claret to match the bodies and fully lined out, so I guess these things did matter in those days.
Mike
The brake gear is where it got a bit, how shall we say, interesting? Most of the parts are etched brass. First of all there is a mounting frame to be folded up and joined to the frames, one for each of the outer wheelsets.
(https://i.ibb.co/5csPPzz/IMG-20211107-165257197-BURST000-COVER-TOP.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5csPPzz)
(https://i.ibb.co/bN6bvv7/IMG-20211107-165346700.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bN6bvv7)
There are four sets of brakes, two on each wheelset, thus four triangular brake bars, made up of eight etches to be joined in pairs. Maybe I was having a dim day, but I assumed that when the instructions said join them in pairs, that meant in identical pairs ...
(https://i.ibb.co/9tcJLMz/IMG-20211122-165833194.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9tcJLMz)
Only it didn't. It meant in pairs to make two sets of non-identical bars, on for each wheelset. So I had to unsolder what I had done. I managed to separate three of the four pairs of bars. The one that defeated me was the most delicate one without the crossbeam. To make replacements, I soldered the partners to this one to a sheet of brass of similar thickness and cut them out.
(https://i.ibb.co/dtJ8W6n/IMG-20211123-150258613-BURST000-COVER-TOP.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dtJ8W6n)
In doing so, I lost the hole for attaching to the equalising bar. That didn't concern me because I was planning to replace the attachments anyway with proper forked connectors. The instructions are to twist the etch through 90° to get the hole vertical seemed a bit on the crude side. At the same time, I made connectors for the pull rods to the vacuum cylinder rather than simply bend the end of the rod.
(https://i.ibb.co/7Qh45fp/IMG-20211127-172503746.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Qh45fp)
Mike Williams pointed out that the connectors will be hidden behind the wheels, as indeed they will unless you really look for them. Is it worth the effort? Decide for yourself!
Nick
(https://i.ibb.co/dmzPwhV/467-F15-E2-0985-42-D8-82-B9-49042798-D4-F2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dmzPwhV)
Mine went together fine.
(https://i.ibb.co/Gc9NzKd/6-E60-BAEF-F520-41-FD-ABF4-8-E41336-DEBBC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Gc9NzKd)
Better picture
Assembling the brake gear was tricky because everything gets in the way of everything else. That's just how the prototype was. Basically, you start at the bottom (with the chassis inverted) and work upwards. It was easier to use the rivets supplied in the kit as joiners this time. I did a temporary assembly. Initially I hoped that I could do a, if not complete then partially complete, assembly and still remove the wheels for painting, but it was not to be. The whole lot will have to come apart again for painting.
(https://i.ibb.co/gTxTRHm/IMG-20211128-160928461.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gTxTRHm)
(https://i.ibb.co/56BTY3D/IMG-20211128-160948397.jpg) (https://ibb.co/56BTY3D)
I turned up some little washers to go over the outer ends of the brake bars. They are definitely visible and should improve the looks. I will fit them after painting.
Back to the headstocks, Mike clarified for me the various parts of the vac pipes, but I decided not to fit them yet because they are attached to the chassis and the body, so I'll wait until those two parts are attached and then I can judge the final size of the vac pipe accurately. Now I glued the buffer bodies in place with 24hr epoxy.
(https://i.ibb.co/pQdYYmp/IMG-20211201-151405284.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pQdYYmp)
Nick
The body is etched brass, inner and outer sides and inner and outer ends. The etches are first class. The definition of the framing and window surrounds could not be better, and everything fits together precisely.
(https://i.ibb.co/LRNhRr9/IMG-20211212-181758522.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LRNhRr9)
(https://i.ibb.co/VWLC7Gn/IMG-20211213-174345488.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWLC7Gn)
(https://i.ibb.co/hY8NXQ8/IMG-20211212-181826812.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hY8NXQ8)
The inner sides are curved below the waist, and I didn't find that as easy as the instructions suggested it should be. The engineer in me said that rolling bars would be the best solution, but mine weren't long enough. Had I known about it when I made them ... 20/20 hindsight again. I tried various solutions like bending by hand which seemed it could go wrong too easily, or pressing down with a roller on a thick pad of bubblewrap, but I'm not heavy or strong enough to make much impression. Finally I clamped the side in the vice between two cylinders, the important one being a surplus piece of waste pipe I'd been hoarding for just this purpose, and pushed hard with a steel rod.
(https://i.ibb.co/Rhgnsmf/IMG-20211213-152910729.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Rhgnsmf)
(https://i.ibb.co/54nhJKr/IMG-20211213-152938617.jpg) (https://ibb.co/54nhJKr)
Flanges at top and bottom were then bent by clamping between two pieces of hardwood.
(https://i.ibb.co/zFwy6WV/IMG-20211213-155200659.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zFwy6WV)
This is the inner side finished. It has lines half-etched on the inside where it is curved, and these show up on the outside surface because it doesn't bend into a continuous curve, but something more like a set of flats. I ran a file over it just to show them up and to check that the bending was reasonably uniform both up and down and along the side. The finish doesn't actually matter because it is all covered by the outer layer.
(https://i.ibb.co/cgkqbvS/IMG-20211213-170344554.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgkqbvS)
I feel a bit ambivalent about the choice of etched brass for the sides. On the plus side, the finish of the outer sides is superb. On the minus side, the curving of the inner sides wasn't that easy. An easier-to-work material or a precurved part would be nice, but I wouldn't want to compromise the definition of the outer sides.
Nick
I didn't attempt to pre-curve the outer layers of the sides, but instead soldered them above the waistline where it's flat before assembly, then clamped the lower edges to make the curve and seamed the join. Worked just fine.
(https://i.ibb.co/JCLdcVt/IMG-20211215-183534302.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JCLdcVt)
There wasn't much in the way of detailing - a lot of it is better left until after painting. The handrails at one end are not the usual round section, but half round (again, why?) and of course bent on the diameter, the difficult way. For just two handrails I decided it wasn't worth the trouble of making some fancy tooling, so I clamped it to the bench and bent it around a piece of material of suitable size, all the while pressing down hard.
(https://i.ibb.co/GPB50Z3/IMG-20211219-154910177.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GPB50Z3)
Inevitably there was some twist but eventually the shape came out right. It was then cut to length, the ends bent over and filed to round to fit the holes in the body.
(https://i.ibb.co/SssvdZT/IMG-20211224-110813722-BURST000-COVER-TOP.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SssvdZT)
And here is a trial assembly of the chassis, body and roof, which isn't quite right yet. The roof is a resin casting, nicely finished but rather flexible, and I might have to think how to make it keep its shape properly. But it's starting to look like a coach now!
(https://i.ibb.co/dKtWVhP/IMG-20211224-124529009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dKtWVhP)
The roof is attached to the body by three screws along the centreline. Because of the flexibility of the resin casting of the roof, to get it sitting down properly on the sides and ends it was necessary to pull up the screws considerably, and that caused the ridge line to go into a ridge and furrow. That can be seen in the photo of the trial assembly in the previous post.
The solution was to glue a steel strip on the inside of the roof. That made it a lot more rigid and it now sits properly on the body.
(https://i.ibb.co/b767gGn/IMG-20220104-170827341-BURST000-COVER-TOP.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b767gGn)
It's now ready for the paintshop, and after that the final body details and the interior.
Just to bring the story to a conclusion, I completed the coach interior according to the instructions. The resin castings of the seats needed a bit of fettling. It looks as if the mould wasn't fitting together quite as it should, but it wasn't a big task. The interior is quite good enough if one is peering through the windows. It isn't one that makes you want take the roof off to show your friends.
Then there was the painting. It took much longer than I'd bargained for, but that has nothing to do with the kit and everything to do with the evil genius at Crewe who devised the paint and lining scheme. Plus my lack of experience. I equipped myself with a Badger airbrush, a compressor that proved only just enough to propell it, and for the lining I found the draughtsman's ruling pen that I used for inking in drawings when they were still done manually. Suffice to say that after a lot of trial and error, the finish is not to exhibition standards, but it is one I'm happy with. My answer to those who said to use a professional painter is that I wanted to learn how to do it and I now have the satisfaction of knowing it is totally my work. I was very apprehensive before I started, but in the end I was enjoying it.
I enjoyed building the kit and I am pleased with the result. I must mention the excellent support I had from Mike Williams throughout. I would make more of Mike's coaches, in fact I plan to, but first I've got to have a suitable engine to pull them.
In case you missed it, there is a photo of it on the Fawley Hill thread (http://g3forum.org.uk/index.php?topic=3009.0).
Nick