GWR Auto Trailers
Preamble/Overview.
When it comes to push-pull trains, the GWR was a pioneer and possibly operated more than any other railway.
The majority of branchlines (and many mainline stopping services) were operated in this fashion and a vast number of driving /auto trailers were constructed.
So, you have a 48XX (later 14XX) 0-4-2T, either electric (most likely from a GRS kit) or live steam from Kingscale, but no autotrailer to haul/propel.
At one time GRS did offer a kit for an auto trailer (based on diagram A10) but it is many years since that was deleted from their range. Occasionally, a ready-built example may pop up in an auction catalogue but usually in poor condition (these kits did not age well, a weakness of the design, using thin resin castings which warped). If you do come across one of these, they are not beyond rescue but it will require confidence and drastic action : The result of a well-executed rebuild is an impressive vehicle.
Failing a "rescue" project, your only option is to scratchbuild.
This is to be a guide to building a GWR auto trailer. The fact they were built over a very long period, from the turn of the 20th century until the early 1950s (and many were converted from even older Steam Railmotors) resulted in a multitude of carriage diagrams with varying configurations .
There were, however, groups of diagrams which shared common parts, so a "family" likeness was a thread running through the designs.
When it comes to modelling these trailers, advantage can be taken of this by producing modules suited to multiple diagrams.
The particularly"fiddly bits" are the inset doorways, toplight windows and the angled ends but these suit themselves to modular construction, since they are common to a range of diagrams.
For my first project I have selected diagrams "Q" and "U" but several of the 3D printed modules suit a wider range of diagrams. These two chosen diagrams are both 70ft trailers with gangway connectors at one end (only a few diagrams included gangways to the adjacent coach to enable the guard to issue tickets to passengers boarding at unstaffed halts).
Diagram "Q" has no luggage compartment and entrance doors at each end only , whereas "U" has a luggage compartment, a central passenger entrance and a driver's compartment. "Q" was originally designed as an intermediate trailer (no driving compartment) but were later fitted with control apparatus at one end, while"U" was built as a driving trailer.
The first stage of the project is to 3D print all those components which are best-suited to that method of production. A large amount of time will be involved in the printing process and I will split the process into stages. The files to produce the subjects are provided as STL files.
Part One : To Begin .... The Windows.
There were two basic patterns of window used with wooden panelled autotrailers : The original type had a main glazed light enclosed in a bolection moulding, with separate toplights above (as seen in the A10 diagram which was the basis of the GRS kit). The final version (used in diagrams "Q","R","T" and "U" only) were of a design where the toplight was part of a unitary window unit enclosed within the overall bolection moulding, giving a more modern appearance.
I have chosen to model diagrams "Q" and "U" to take advantage of this simplified construction as it will enable each 3D printed unit to be inserted into a single cutout in the carriage side.
windowsample.jpg
I am providing three widths of window module to suit diagram "U", two of which also suit diagram "Q".
gauge3.info/downloads/largewindow.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/mediumwindow.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/smallwindow.stl
The requirements are:
Diagram "Q" .... 14 x medium plus 16 x small
Diagram "U" .... 10 x large plus 8 x medium plus 8 x small
Books Recommended : Great Western Auto Trailers Part One (John Lewis / Wild Swan) and Great Western Coaches Part 2 (Jim Russell / OPC)
COMING NEXT : Door/entrance Modules.
John,
Excellent. So glad you are doing this. Let's hope it will encourage others to start scratch building in G3, in the same way as Mike's small tank engine project when that gets going. I'll be following this series with interest.
Nick
A 'coach' that is on my to-do list - one day, so will be following this with great interest.
Thanks
Barry
Part 2 : The Door Modules
These two modules are standard parts, suiting many diagrams other than those being described here.
The central passenger/wider doorway module is also used at the ends of some diagrams but for the purposes of this project, it is used at both ends of diagram "Q" and forms the central entrance of diagram "U".
The narrower (driver's) doorway is here being used for diagram "U".
The "wings" attached to the modules are to locate the main side components and are to be trimmed to suit the application/orientation.
passgrdoor.jpg driverdoor.jpg
gauge3.info/downloads/passgrdoor.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/driverdoor.stl
Diagram "Q" requires 4 x passgrdoor.stl
Diagram "U" requires 2 x passgrdoor.stl plus 2 x driverdoor.stl
NEXT UP : The Headstocks
(General Note : The parts are being presented here in no particular sequence .... there is a queue for the printer time and parts are sequenced to suit availability and only listed here when a part has been prepared to be photographed. The material being used is black PLA and it is impossible to successfully photograph before priming in a photo-friendly colour).
Very interesting 'hybrid' approach to scratch carriage building John, combining traditional modelling methods with printed detail parts if I understand correctly. Makes a lot of sense to 'nervous' printers (e.g. myself) who aren't so keen on extremely large prints that take forever to actually print.
Thank you for sharing...
Regards,
IanT
Thank you for the expressions of support for my efforts.
The idea is, as Ian has said, to combine a variety of techniques and materials.
The most intricate parts are being 3D printed whilst others are to be laser cut and die-cut from timber, card and sheet plastic.
The four machines at my disposal are the Snapmaker 2 A350 (3D FDM printer/low power laser cutter/ CNC mill combo), Elegoo Mars2 Pro (3D resin printer), Cricut "Maker" (die-cutter for card/paper/plastic sheet) and (newly arrived) the XTool M1 (a combined laser cutter and die-cutter).
Traditional modelling methods will be confined to the use of metal for some of the load-bearing components.
The files provided will cover 3D print/laser cutting/die-cutting as appropriate. The manual aspects will be covered in the construction notes.
Regards,
John.
Part 3 : The Headstocks
This module applies to all diagrams of the conventional type auto trailers with open internal layout EXCEPT A6 which had flat ends (also excluded are the various compartment stock conversions e.g. the "Clifton Downs" and similar stock).
gauge3.info/downloads/hstock.stl
hstock1.jpg hstock2.jpg
The "upstands" are provided to locate and fix the body end panels.
The holes for buffers will need to be drilled. I have not yet decided on how to source the buffers, so the hole size is not yet known. I will very probably 3D print a pattern and have them cast.
NEXT UP : The Gangway End
I keep looking for the 'LIKE' button......
John, for those of us who are not, and unlikely to be, 3D printer enabled - can you advise if these printed items are going to be made available for coin of the realm?
I've got an idea that if I use the Jenkinson techniques ('flat' plastikard sides/ends) allied with the Candy bits, it might just be do-able - maybe....?!?
Keep going, I'm liking what I'm seeing.
Barry
Barry,
I had already been thinking about how those without the necessary equipment would participate in the project.
I don't have the time/machine capacity to produce items to sell but, with the necessary files being provided, there are companies which will print/laser cut to the customer's requirements.
It may be that one (or more) of the G3S members who already produce items to sell would be willing to add the components to their inventory.
Regards,
John.
Interlude : Here, while the printer munches its way through the queue, are some I made earlier!
Bogies : GWR Equalised (frequently referred to as the "American" bogie).
Introduced by Churchward (after a visit to the USA) and used under a wide range of GWR coaches (both as original fitments and as replacements for older designs when undergoing repairs) they were made in both 8ft and 9ft wheelbase versions.
Diagram "Q" and "U" auto trailers were among those fitted with the 9ft type from new.
The item produced here is a 3D-printed cosmetic overlay for the bogie (details of structural components will be covered later).
http://gauge3.info/downloads/GWRAmerican9ft.stl
9ftamebog.jpg
and the axlebox
http://gauge3.info/downloads/GWRaxlebox.stl
amebog2.png
I have also prepared files to produce the 8ft "American" and 7ft "Collett" types and these will be made available as other GWR coach types are introduced during this series of articles. A 59ft 6ins "matchboarded" auto trailer (to diagram "Z") is also in the pipeline and this will require the Dean 8ft 6ins bogie.
I am looking at "Dreadnought", "Concertina" and "Toplight" corridor stock as future projects.
John.
There are indeed plenty of companies that will manufacture parts from a supplied solid model file. An internet search will find them. That is what I did when I was looking for laser cut steel parts and 3D model parts in "hard" plastics. Focus your attention on those that allow you to upload a file and give you (almost) instant feedback on cost and any potential manufacturing concerns or problems. Avoid those that ask you to make a phone call or email first. The idea of talking to a human is attractive to some, but it adds to their overheads and means they are likely only interested in large company orders, not small orders from hobbyists. Everyone offers discounts for quantity, so consider if you can share an order or just stock up on enough parts to build a whole train. Oh, and avoid those who make parts and ship from abroad. You will get caught for VAT and import duties and will probably face several weeks delay (don't ask how I know).
Nick
Part 4 : The Gangway Connector End.
This module applies to all the diagrams with a gangway connector (note the maximum permitted length of a "set" was two cars, so no trailer was fitted with connectors at both ends). When a train consisted of more than two cars, the loco was "sandwiched" between a maximum of two trailers either end (the reason being that the regulator linkage was mechanical and would otherwise become too heavy for the driver to operate).
There are three files (LH/centre/RH)
gauge3.info/downloads/gwayendLH.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/gwayendcentre.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/gwayendRH.stl
IMPORTANT NOTE : Although the LH and RH components may look identical to the driving end components THEY ARE SLIGHTLY NARROWER since the centre section was wider than at driving end to accommodate the gangway .... so mark when you have printed so as not to get them muddled during assembly.
The photos show the three panels as printed (not yet fettled) and test-fitted to the headstock.
gyend1.jpg
gyend.jpg
Prototype Note : Although built with end windows in the non-driving ends, many had the end windows plated over in later years (see photos of your chosen trailer).
NEXT UP : The Non-gangwayed End (driving/luggage compartment)
Part 5 : The Non-gangwayed End (driving/luggage compartment)
This module applies to numerous diagrams with panelled ends and was fitted to both driving cab ends and luggage compartments. Although built with windows in the non-driving ends, some had the luggage end windows plated over in later years (see photos of your chosen trailer).
There are three files (LH/centre/RH)
gauge3.info/downloads/drivingendLH.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/drivingendcentre.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/drivingendRH.stl
IMPORTANT NOTE : Although the LH and RH components may look identical to the gangwayed end components THEY ARE SLIGHTLY WIDER .... so mark when you have printed so as not to get them muddled during assembly.
The photo shows the three panels as printed.
drivingend1.jpg
Diagrams "Q" and "U" each require one end of this type (either end in "Q" and driving end in "U").
NEXT UP : The Internal Partitions
Coming along nicely John, it's a 'gap' in my fleet so will watch with interest.
Part 6 : The Internal Partitions.
This is where it becomes a little complicated!
There were partitions with a single sliding door and others with double sliding doors.
To make matters more confusing, whereas the planking on the passenger saloon side of partitions was always horizontal, that on the driver's side of the same partitions was, in some cases, vertical!
There are three files:-
gauge3.info/downloads/passengerpartition.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/luggagepartition.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/driverpartition.stl
While the drawings and narrative/ photos are not particularly clear on the precise internal arrangements, I believe the following is a reasonable interpretation of what is available.
Diagram "Q" requires 4 x passengerpartition.stl
These are glued back-to-back to form two partitions (separating end vestibules from the completely open single passenger saloon).
Diagram "U" requires 5 x passengerpartition.stl + 1x driverpartition.stl + 2 x luggagepartition.stl
These are paired/glued back-to-back as follows:-
(a) driverpartition+passengerpartition (dividing driver's cab from passenger saloon)
(b) + (c) passengerpartition+passengerpartition (providing two partitions separating centre entrance vestibule from the two adjacent passenger saloons)
(d) luggagepartition+luggagepartition (dividing passenger saloon and luggage compartment)
The photos shows the three types of panels as printed (sequence : passenger/luggage/driver)
passdoor.jpg
luggdoor.jpg
drivdoor.jpg
NEXT UP : "Walkover" seating.
Part 7 : The "Walkover" Seat
What is a "walkover" seat?
A seat where the backrest is not fixed but pivoted, so it can be moved to face the direction of travel; a type more commonly found in electric tramcars (streetcars).
Some diagrams of GWR auto trailer saloons incorporated a bay of this type of transverse seating, flanked by saloons of longitudinal bench seats.
The file contains three components : seat base/squab, end/ arm rest and the back rest.
gauge3.info/downloads/walkover.stl
Diagram "Q" requires 16 of these.
Diagram"U" requires 12.
walkover1.jpg walkover2.jpg
Next Up : The (retractable) passenger access steps :
Part 8 : The Retractable Steps
This is another of those parts which can cause confusion!
In the book by John Lewis, there are two different drawings for these steps.
It is stated that the first drawing is of a type unique to trailer No.1 (borne out by photographs) but it goes on to state that the second drawing is of the type fitted to ALL other trailers.
However, examination of photos shows at least three types in addition to the "unique" type fitted to No.1.
The differences revolve around the lower part of the frame and the manner in which the pivots and steps are arranged. It may be that the position of the underframe trusses had a bearing on the designs (the steps on central entrances were fitted around the truss rods )but, equally, it could be an improved design to strengthen the support for the steps.
For the purposes of this project, I shall refer to the steps as "type 1" and "type 2"
There are five files available:-
gauge3.info/downloads/type1_1.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/type1_2.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/type2_1.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/type2_2.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/step.stl
Files type1_1 and type1_2 are the frame components for a "type 1" while type2_1 and type2_2 are those for a "type 2". The "step" is common to both types.
For a "Q" trailer you require 4 x type2_1 plus 4 x type2_2 plus 8 x step
For a "U" trailer you require 2 x type1_1 plus 2 x type1_2 plus 4 x step
Incidentally, if you happen to require replacement steps for a GRS kit (A10) trailer, then the "type 2" is correct.
Photo shows type 1 to the left of type 2
re1.jpg
NEXT UP : Stepboards for solebar and bogie .
Part 9 : Stepboards.
A bit tedious but nonetheless important details, the type and positioning of solebar-mounted stepboards was fairly consistent on autotrailers.
The passenger entrances would have retractable steps to permit boarding at halts without normal platforms, whereas the luggage and driver's compartments would have just a stepboard on the solebar.
Bogies would have a variety of steps fitted to suit the type of bogie and were positioned relative to the doors they served. Consult photos of the period being modelled, since although many types were built with stepboards, they had been removed by the 1930's.
For this project, the following solebar steps are required (each file contains multiple stepboards so you need print only the number of files as below).
Diagram "Q" : 1 x gauge3.info/downloads/Qstepboards.stl
Diagram "U" : 2 x gauge3.info/downloads/Ustepboards.stl
Both diagrams were fitted with 9ft Equalised "American" bogies (print only one file, which contains 4 steps, for diagram "U").
Diagram "Q" : NO bogie steps fitted in period being modelled (1930's).
Diagram "U" : 1 x gauge3.info/downloads/bogiesteps.stl
Photos show
1) "Q" type steps (which fit to solebar between retractable step grab rails.
2) The three types of step for "U" type (also suitable for diagram "T").
3) The steps fitted to bogies of "U" type trailers (note they are "handed" as the longer end section projects beyond outer ends of bogies).
qsteps.jpg
Usteps.jpg
bogiesteps1.jpg
NEXT UP : The fixed seating.
P.S. The instructions for assembly will not commence until all necessary parts have been printed/cut,etc.
Part 10 : The fixed seating.
There were two types of seating (in addition to the "walkover" type (which was covered in Part 7) these were longitudinal bench seats and fixed-back transverse seats, located at the ends of the rows of the "walkover" type.
The transverse type is covered by file
gauge3.info/downloads/endseat.stl
There are three components to each seat (end/arm, squab and back support) which, when assembled, back onto either partition panelling or a bank of longitudinal seating. Note that end/arm is reversible so that same parts can be used for LH and RH positioning.
Where they back onto longitudinal seating, you will also need the "backing panel".
gauge3.info/downloads/backpanel.stl
N.B. The back panels are "handed", having diagonal planking, which slants down towards the centre of the coach (the file will print one of each).
For a "Q" trailer you will require 2 x LH seats plus 2 x RH seats plus 4 x back panels
For a "U" trailer you will require 4 x LH seats plus 4 x RH seats plus 6 x back panels
The bench seating (arranged longitudinally along the walls of the coach) although forming a continuous seat, was divided into sections by an armrest/leg. The units for this project are of two lengths; 3ft seating two passengers and 4ft 6in seating three passengers, which I shall refer to as short and long. There are six files covering these units : Short and Long each have a LH arm, RH arm and "no arm" versions, which enables the required configurations to be assembled for the "Q" and "U" trailers,
gauge3.info/downloads/shortLHarmbench.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/shortRHarmbench.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/shortNOarmbench.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/longLHarmbench.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/longRHarmbench.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/longNOarmbench.stl
Required for a "Q" trailer:
2x shortLHarmbench.stl; 2 x shortRHarmbench.stl, 4 x shortNOarmbench.stl,
4 x longLHarmbench.stl, 4x longRHarmbench.stl
Required for a "U" trailer:
6 x longNOarmbench.stl; 2 x longLHarmbench.stl; 2 x longRHarmbench.stl
Photos show : Transverse seat with back panel fitted; sample short and long bench seating; positioning of transverse seat at junction with bench seating.
endseat.jpg
backpanel.jpg
benchsamples.jpg
rowseats.jpg
endseatback.jpg
NEXT UP : Electric lighting components.
Part 11 : Electric lighting components
Lighting : Trailers to Diagrams "Q" and "U" were all gas lit when built but, between October '29 and January '32, all were converted to electric lighting.
Electrical/ battery boxes came in two types (widths being 4ft 6ins and 3ft 6ins) and can be printed from files
gauge3.info/downloads/BoxLarge.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/BoxSmall.stl
You will need 3 boxes per coach (2 x large plus 1 x small)
Dynamo : gauge3.info/downloads/dynamo.stl
Photo: Large and small boxes (handles added with wire after printing....positions of holes are marked for drilling) ; dynamo (there are two parts, the pulley being separate from the dynamo body/support bracket).
battbox.jpg
Note : If modelling a gas lit coach you will need to fit lamp tops and pipework, etc. to the roof; much simpler to electrify your coach!
NEXT UP: Body detailing (including "gong").
Part 12 : Gong and other driving end bits and pieces.
Gong : Prominent on the driving ends of autotrailers were the warning gongs, fitted from the 1920's onwards, to augment the sound of the whistle when the autotrailer was leading. The gong was operated by the driver via a foot pedal cable linkage.
The most usual position was above the LH driving cab window (looking at the front of the coach) but in a few cases it was located below the window (usually when driving controls had been retro-fitted to the gangwayed end of an intermediate trailer, such as with diagram "R").
The file contains two parts : The gong and a spacer piece, which fits between the gong and trailer end.
gauge3.info/downloads/gong.stl
gong.jpg
Regulator : This hangs down and is located by pivot/linkage above the central window in the driving compartment (the location is obvious from the triangular backing plate which can be seen on the outside of the car).
gauge3.info/downloads/regulator.stl
regulator.jpg
Regulator Backing Plate : The triangular plate on the end above centre window.
I sugggest you print two and use one internally, to act as mount for regulator arm.
Note : On these later-built trailers, the bolt positions are different from those on earlier (e.g. the A10) trailers.
gauge3.info/downloads/backplate.stl
backingplate.jpg
Driver's Vacuum Brake Control. This is the control fitted in the driving cab and sits on top of a vacuum pipe which comes up through the floor of the coach. The base of this component is designed to fit onto a 2.5 mm diameter tube or rod.
gauge3.info/downloads/vacuumvalve.stl
brakevalve.jpg
Alarm Communication Gear : Between late 1928 and late 1931, all "Q" and "U" trailers were fitted with passenger alarm chain gear . Externally, the gear consisted of rods and enclosures fitted on the driving end of these cars (on most diagrams the gear was fitted to the non-driving end).
This file will print the enclosure boxes for one car
gauge3.info/downloads/alarm.stl
Note : Being difficult to photograph as loose parts, the photo shows them as fitted on the non-driving end of my diagram A10 trailer.
alarm.jpg
NEXT UP : Vacuum brake fittings.
Part 13 : Brake Components.
Vacuum cylinder : gauge3.info/downloads/vaccylinder.stl
Linkage : gauge3.info/downloads/vaclink.stl
V-hangers : gauge3.info/downloads/vhangers.stl (this file prints 4 hangers)
2 x Cylinders and linkages plus 4 x V-hangers required per coach.
Rather than try photographing the components, the attached screenshots show what each file will produce.
Note: This type is NOT suitable for earlier (Dean era) coaches.
vaccyl.jpg
lingage.jpg
vhangers.jpg
Next Up : Roof Hoops (internal)
Part 14 Internal Roof Hoops.
Roof Hoops : These parts are to provide support for the roof planking and lateral strengthening/positioning for the sides (they act in conjunction with the internal saloon partitions and share their upper profile).
Several are required to be spaced along the length of the coach and I recommend a minimum of eight for diagram "Q" and six for diagram "U" ("U" having two addtional saloon partitions).
gauge3.info/downloads/roofhoop.stl
roffhoop2.jpg roofhoop.jpg
NEXT UP : Window Bars
Part 15 : Window Bars
Non-driving Ends : The windows of the non-driving ends of trailers were often (but not always) internally fitted with three vertical bars per pane to protect during loading of luggage and other goods. From the mid-1930's onwards, the majority of windows in non-driving ends were plated over (following a period during which the glazing had been partly painted black, externally, as loco crew complained of being distracted by reflections).
The vertical bars on the end windows are best represented by 60thou. brass wire.
The spacers/frames to aid fitting those bars are contained in the following files:-
gauge3.info/downloads/outerbars.stl (this prints a pair of frames for the outer windows).
Although not required for this project since gangway connectors are fitted, the following file prints the centre window spacer/frame (this, as with the outerbars frame, suits all trailers with a central window).
gauge3.info/downloads/centrebars.stl
NOTE : Whereas the centrebars file prints a symmetrical frame, the outerbars frame is ASYMMETRICAL to fit the available space. The narrower vertical side is the inner edge (the part is invertible to suit both LH and RH windows).
outerbars1.jpg outerbars2.jpg
centrebars.jpg centrebars1.jpg
Luggage Compartment Doors : Fitted with internal bars to protect the droplights.
These can be printed from this file gauge3.info/downloads/doorbars.stl (which prints a single item to cover one pair of doors....also use with other GWR coaches (including the E147 brake composite coaches which form the "B Set" from GRS).
Notes : Passenger Saloon Droplights : On trailers with droplights in passenger saloons (not applicable to the diagrams being constructed here) a single horizontal bar was fitted internally across the droplight opening (presumably to deter passengers from leaning out).
Driver Compartment Windows : Just to confuse matters, from the 1930's, a single white horizontal line was painted (internally) across the three driving end windows of many trailers... to remind the driver that the windows were glazed and not to try leaning out! It can look like a bar in photos.
NEXT UP : More parts for detailing
As a diversion from the autotrailer bodywork, I have been thinking about mass-production of bogies for the coaches I have in the pipeline. The conventional option would be to have parts laser-cut or milled from steel but this involves lead-time and a lot of manual assembly.
I decided to try a method with the following objectives.:
To use a machine capable of replicating complex shapes repeatedly and with great accuracy (i.e. a production line) requiring minimal manual intervention (time-saving).
Features of "Bogex" (Bogie Experiment):-
Print one-piece suspension block in PETG.
Axles running on inside bearings; designed for (optional) equalisation.
Outer/cosmetic frames : Either make your own or use commercially available frames (e.g. Walsall M I) which can be glued or screwed onto the end blocks.
The only fabricated metal parts will be bearing sleeves, equaliser beams and a mounting block (to screw into printed base block).
Design quickly adaptable to suit any wheelbase.
Photos show rendering of the file for the main unit block (9ft WB and suitable for the "American" frames shown earlier in this thread).
Further report when the test print has been completed.
John.
P.S. Currently printing in black PETG using "Precision and Strength" setting in Luban (the Snapmaker dedicated slicer) which will take a little under 18 hours.
bogex1.jpg bogex2.jpg bogex3.jpg
John,
I have never had much luck printing with PETG. I find it to be overly fussy of settings.
Regards
Ralph
Ralph,
It is now just over halfway into the 18 hours and (at the risk of tempting fate, no doubt) will say that all is looking good. Barring a long power outage, more than the UPS can cover (the wind is blowing), I am hoping all will be well.
I simply selected black PETG in the Luban option settings and the screen indicates a bed temp of 70 and nozzle temp 235. I am using "Sunlu Gold Award" filament.
I have previously used green PETG successfully for smaller items (e.g. some Gresley coach parts as reported last year).
The Luban app is specifically tailored for Snapmaker machines and the default settings for the materials I have used have given good results.
Regards,
John.
This morning I woke to find the completed test print waiting for me.
It is extremely strong and dimensionally correct.
I will print the test axlebox later today.
John.
bogex1.jpg bogex2.jpg bogex3.jpg
A Bevy of (GWR) Bogies.
The Auto trailer and "Siphon" projects require a variety of bogie types, so here are some of the common types fitted.
1) Dean 8ft 6in Bogie : Dean bogies were produced in a variety of wheelbases from 6ft 4in to 10ft but the early types of Auto trailers and steam railmotors mostly ran on the 8ft 6ins version (a few ordinary clerestory carriages adapted as auto trailers did run on a 10ft version). Although the same size bogie ran under other stock, be aware that there were differences in spring length and the design of the scroll irons and dampers (the parts which connected the bogie to the solebar) when employed under clerestory and other Dean era stock. I shall, initially, be using this under the diagram "Z" auto trailer.
2) Equalised 9ft ("American") Bogie : Designed by Churchward this type ran under a wide range of auto trailer diagrams (including the "Q" and "U" types being built here) as well as a wide range of other coaching stock. Again, there were variations in detail over the period during which they were produced. Visually, they are easily identified as being the 9ft wheelbase type (as opposed to 8ft) by having three sets of transverse leaf springs (the 8ft type had two).
3) Equalised 8ft ("American") Bogie : A variation on the 9ft type, not so common as the 9ft version and rarely used under auto trailers.
4) Collett 7ft : This was used under some newly-built trailers also as replacements under some older Churchward era trailers. Again this came in more than one version (including "light" and "heavy") with detail differences. It was also used under some "Siphons" as well as ordinary coaching stock.
Here are files for the Dean 8ft 6in type:-
gauge3.info/monobloc/Dean_8_6_bogie.zip
The "mounts" file includes the plates which fit onto the solebar and locate the "scroll irons".
You will need to supply wire/rod for the scroll irons and damper rods (as well as equalisation beams and inside axleboxes.... there will be a printed version available to suit the "block"). There are decisions you will need to make, in view of the manner in which Dean mounted bodies on bogies. Dean did not employ the familiar bolster/pivot arrangement but mounted externally via the solebar and, in model form, this is impractical since bogie swing is severely limited (this will be covered in the notes on assembly which will follow). A suitable ring type bolster mount will be provided with the next upload which will be for a bolster type Collett bogie.
Dean86Block.jpg Deandampers.jpg dean861.jpg dean862.jpg
Next : Collett 7ft Bogie.
Collett 7ft Bogie.
The file to print this bogie :
gauge3.info/monobloc/Collett_7ft_bogie.zip
The ring mount file is common to all bogies in this project.
The design is intended to be fitted to the bogie block and to interface with a plain surface fitted to the underside of the carriage body and spaced to provide correct ride height when mounted on the bogies. You will note that there are four spherical points of contact, one pair being deeper than other. The object is to stabilise against lateral "wobble" by setting one bogie with a ring where the two deeper spheres are are aligned laterally (across the width of the bogie) while the other bogie has the ring mounted at 90 degrees to the first (i.e. the deeper spheres aligned with the longitudinal centre line of the body) to maintain correct ride height, while permitting a restricted lateral "twist" to handle track cant transitioning and any track defects (effectively a three-point suspension). The pivot mounting bolts should be slackened to allow a limited (1 mm) vertical play at the pivot. I suggest that the rings should be screwed to the block to permit replacement if wear should occur.
Being black, the printed parts are difficult to photograph, so the parts are also illustrated by rendering the source files.
collettf1.jpg Collett7.jpg 7ftcollettscad.jpg collett7ft.jpg collett7axbox.jpg A-Ring.jpg
The hornblocks (for the internal bearings of the bogie "block") are at gauge3.info/downloads/bogiehornblock.stl
Intention is that (as with the bogie block) they be printed in PETG which is oil/chemical/water resistant (unlike PLA) and drilled to accept a brass sleeve/bush.
A printable pattern will follow, from which to mark out the equalising beam (which will be shaped from brass).
Next : The "American" bogies (8ft and 9ft).
9ft Equalised Bogie
Am9.jpg
The files to print this bogie are:
gauge3.info/downloads/american9block.stl (this is the main equalising block)
gauge3.info/downloads/american9frame.stl (this is the cosmetic outer frame)
Choice of axleboxes, which I have labelled "A" and "B"
The "A" type would appear to be the older of the two types.
Auto trailers with "American" bogies appear with type "A" in older photos but some more recent photos show the "B" type (mainly in post-war and BR era photos).
AmOld.jpg Amlater.jpg
gauge3.info/downloads/AmAbox.stl
gauge3.info/downloads/AmBbox.stl
8ft Equalised Bogie
Am8ft.jpg
This bogie is visually similar to the 9ft type, the main identifying difference being the transverse leaf springs, of which there are just two (the 9ft bogie has three).
The 8ft version was rarely found under autotrailers (diagram "N" No.41 is an example) but commonly used under 57ft "Toplight" and other ordinary stock.
gauge3.info/downloads/american8block.stl (this is the main equalising block)
gauge3.info/downloads/american8frame.stl (this is the cosmetic outer frame)
Choice of axleboxes is as for 9ft bogie.
************************************************
The mounting ring (common to all my GWR bogies) :-
gauge3.info/downloads/bogieringmountA.stl
NEXT : More Auto trailer parts
Way beyond what I can do with SCAD John - lot's of effort here, well done.
Regards,
Ian
Over past week I have been working on the diagram "Z" autotrailer (construction is running in parallel with the "Q" and "U" 70ft trailers).
Diagram "Z" was a flat-sided 59ft 6in trailer, matchboarded below the waist and running on Dean 8ft 6in bogies.
"Z" was a conversion, carried out in 1915, from six steam railmotors, Nos. 3 to 8, the resulting trailers being re-numbered 99 to 104 and they lasted until the early 1950's. These were flat sided (no tumblehome) and when built,the first four ran on 8ft 6ins Dean bogies, the last two on 9ft "Fishbelly" bogies. The Dean bogies are covered in a previous post.
The intention is to 3D print large modules, leaving the minimal amount of assembly required. Each side will consist of three modules (necessary to fit the printer) and the first module is ready for a test print (which will take a very long time). Each side is a mirror image of the other, so the three modules will (with addition of a "mirror" instruction) print both sides. The ends will also be in three parts and both ends (driving and luggage) are basically identical, differing in just a few extra add-on fittings such as "gong", alarm gear, etc.
I was concerned as to whether the matchboarding would be sufficiently well-defined but a quick test print of a small section was very satisfactory.
Although the "Z" is subject of this project, the modular source files can be quickly adapted to suit other matchboard trailers by rearranging the panelling, windows and door spacings.
You don't need an " auto tank" (commonly employed were specially fitted 0-4-2 tanks of classes 517 or 48XX/14XX, 2-4-0 "Metro Tanks", some Pannier Tanks and , in BR days, a few small Prairie tanks) since auto trailers were often hauled as normal stock by Panniers, Dean Goods, 2251 class, small Prairie tanks and other non-auto fitted locos.
The STL files will be made available once the test prints have been verified.
P.S. Could this be the time for you to drop hints about a 3d printer for Christmas?!
matchboard.jpg
Zmodule1.jpgZmodule1a.jpgZmodule1b.jpg
There does seem to be a "filament famine" at the moment in my area.
This does happen every now and again.
I do remember someone asking at a G3S committee meeting - "Well why would anybody need one?"
🤣
Regards
Ralph
John, Wikipedia tells me that the GWR had 256 Auto Trailers. With all the varied parts you are making I just wonder what proportion of the stock you are modelling - all of them? ;)
Mike
It took a while for the "Z" files to reach the head of the queue but one side of the autotrailer is now printed.
It is in four parts, necessary owing to the print bed limit of 350mm and desire to align the joints with the door edges. Printed at 160 microns it took 25 hours (the printer can go down to 50 microns....God knows how long that would have taken) .
The second side is now printing and the files for the ends (both to the same pattern) are in preparation.
Being in black PLA, they are not easy to photograph (particularly under artificial light) but the photos show the parts as removed from the print bed and before any fettling/tidying.
The fourth of rhe quintet of autotrailers being produced will be to diagram A9, which had a particularly unusual window design, unique among autotrailers. When the "Q", "U", "Z" and "A9" have been completed, I will (with the A10 GRS kit version) have five GWR autotrailers....that will be more than enough for now (especially since I have only one auto tank, No. 4817 ). Hopefully, I shall get around at some stage, to producing a 64XX Pannier auto tank to handle a four car (2+64XX+2) set.
zside1.jpg zside2.jpg zside3.jpg zside4.jpg
John
Your auto coach build is looking very good, I am following with interest.
Mike
When you unwrap your shiny, new, 3D printer on Christmas Day and are wondering what to print ...... here is the perfect solution to "break it in".
The ten (STL) files contained in this ZIP file will produce the sides and ends for the diagram "Z" trailer (as in the photo).
http://gauge3.info/downloads/Z.zip
For a single trailer, you will require:-
One each of the "side specific" parts plus
two each of the common, to both sides/ends, parts.
The instructions (and additional STL files) to complete the model will follow over the next few weeks.
__________________________________________________
Information and suggestions for those new to 3D printing.
1) Power supply : Some of these files take 12 hours or more to print and a stable power supply will ensure they are not damaged by power "blips"/low voltage or short outages (ever more likely if the doom-mongers are correct). I use a PowerWalker VI 2200 1200W UPS, which should run my printer for around 45 minutes without mains power. https://www.amazon.co.uk/PowerWalker-2200-LCD-IEC-1200W/dp/B00O636RRC
2) Filament : I have used black PLA from Amazon (branded "Eono") to print my autotrailer parts. As guide to quantity required, I printed all the parts shown in the photo below from a 1kg drum and still have plenty to spare (in fact, almost enough to print a second set).
Z-PARTS.jpg
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Brand-Filament-1-75mm-Printer/dp/B09H6N9R58
3) Cost : The parts shown used approx. 530 grammes of PLA (costing around 11 GBP) and an educated guess as to the amount of power consumed would be around 8 kWh (units).
My second matchboarded trailer is diagram A9, selected for its unique pattern of windows which includes triple-paned units, consisting of a droplight flanked by narrow fixed lights.
As with the "Z", each side will consist of four components and the ends are same as for the "Z".
The first side section is ready for printing and these renderings of the OpenSCAD file illustrate the pattern.
a9_1_1.jpg
A9_Side1_1.jpg A9 side windows.jpg
Diagram A9
http://gauge3.info/downloads/A9.zip
The twelve (STL) files contained in this ZIP file will produce the sides and ends for the diagram "A9" trailer.
Each side consists of 5 files (4 are specific to each side but the fifth, the central door, is common to both sides).
The 3 parts for the ends are the same for both the driving and luggage ends.
Internal Partitions for "A9" and "Z" autotrailers.
N.B. The previously uploaded internal partitions for the "Q" and "U" trailers ARE NOT interchangeable with these .... the roof profile is different.
This ZIP download http://gauge3.info/downloads/A9_Z_partitions.zip
contains three STL files common to both the A9 and Z trailers (in fact are suitable for any GWR matchboarded trailer). These files will print the internal divisions separating the passenger saloons from the driving compartment, luggage compartment and central entrance vestibule.
To produce the four divisions required you will need (ordered from the leading/driving end):
a) 1 x "driving" + 1 x double "passenger" door (glued back-to-back, dividing driver from passenger saloon).
b) 2 x single door partitions (the item labelled "luggage" partition....glued back-to-back, dividing passenger saloon from entrance).
c) 2 x double "passenger" door partitions (glued back-to-back dividing vestibule from second passenger saloon).
d) 2 x single door "luggage"(glued back-to-back dividing luggage from passenger saloon)
Seating
This ZIP download http://gauge3.info/downloads/A9_Z_seats.zip
contains three STL files to print the transverse seating : There is a seat with LH arm rest, a seat with RH arm rest and a back-to-back pair.
For an A9 or Z you will require two prints from each file (total of 6 units). The remainder of the seating was longitudinal and the files have previously been produced for the "Q" and "U" trailers (details specific to the A9 and Z will be provided when the assembly instructions are produced).
In connection with the auto trailer projects, I shall be having the appropriate buffers cast in brass and nickel-silver (guides in brass; heads/shafts in n/s). These buffers fit all the diagrams except A6 (which had flat ends).
The 3D-printed patterns being used are produced from the OpenSCAD files shown below.
I shall be placing an order for 24 buffers (i.e. sets for 6 trailers) but if anyone here is building a trailer (or two) then I am willing to increase the quantity and supply "at cost" (firm orders only....I don't want to be left with surplus stock).
Regards,
John.
GW type2 auto trailer buffer2.png GW type2 auto trailer buffer5.png GW auto buffer head2.png GW auto buffer head1.png GW type2 auto trailer buffer3.png
Last Orders!
As matters stand, I shall be placing an order of 40 buffers (i.e. enough for ten coaches) and all are spoken for.
If you want a set, then now is the time to place your order.
I don't yet have a price but they will be passed to you "at cost".
The guides will be cast in brass and the heads/shafts in nickel silver.
Regards,
John.
atbuf1.jpg atbuf2.jpg
Today I received from Mike Williams the first of the cast autotrailer buffers.
The guides are brass and the heads nickel silver.
The attached photos are as they arrived (I have not removed casting sprue nor cleaned in any way).
I have arranged with Mike that he will add to his stocklist and supply to anyone requiring them.
So please contact Williams Models if you require sets.
Regards,
John
I started the autotrailer project more than 3 years ago but it got pushed back in favour of other rolling stock projects, as you will have seen from my forum posts.
Today, the first two trailers have been completed (apart from some minor paint touching-up and application the transfers, which I shall be printing tomorrow) .
They are both "matchboard" types converted from steam railmotors.
Diagram "Z" is the earlier of the two, having been converted in 1915, while the A9 diagram trailers were converted 1919/20.
Both these are to be available as kits from Ant Terranova (New Land 3D) and he is working hard to assemble display models for the AGM (unfortunately, I shall not be there).
I am aware that the "U" diagram trailer (one of my four autotrailer projects launched at the same time) has generated enquiries and it is at the top of my list for early completion.
I am mulling over the possibility of a steam railmotor (battery powered) but the complication of the power bogie (with Walschaerts valve gear) is making me wonder whether it is worth the effort and whether a kit would sell.
All my rolling stock designs have been made available to Ant for kit production and he is making good progress, introducing as many as he can, as quickly as possible.
Ant has also taken on my buildings and accessories range (formerly marketed under the Thatchworks brand by Mark Thatcher) so he has "a lot on his plate"!
Please, watch out at the AGM for Ant's stand and support his work.
The end of the Gauge 3 coach famine is nigh!
John.
P.S. Ant is also offering the full range of my "Monobloc" bogies, so these can be bought separately for your own rolling stock projects.
A9e.jpg
Above : Diagram "A9"
Below : Diagram "Z"
tz1.jpg
Below : Close-up details of both types
tr1.jpg
A9a.jpg
tz2.jpg
tz3.jpg
Well my first thought was just "WoW" John.
Lovely models & great detailing.
Regards,
IanT
If you are one of those who has been asking after the arrival of the GWR diagram "U" autotrailer, then it is time to join the "Q" and place your order with Ant Terranova at New Land 3D. I shall be passing over the STL files very soon, for the preparation of the kits.
Attached are photos of the test-build parts painted and awaiting gold/black lining and subsequent assembly (difficult to photograph in artificial light but will provide an overview of the design).
While on the topic of queueing....the dia. "Q" trailer will be joining the "U" very shortly. Both are gangwayed types so is an ideal partner for "U".
Unlike the "U", diagram"Q" has no luggage compartment or central vestibule, having a single, undivided, passenger saloon with a vestibule at each end.
These are 70ft coaches, so will make an impressive pair.
Update on new projects.
I have been asked to produce S.R. Maunsell corridor stock and Metropolitan "Dreadnought" stock and these are in hand.
Keep watching for updates.
DSCN7457.JPGDSCN7458.JPGDSCN7460.JPGDSCN7461.JPGDSCN7463.JPGDSCN7467.JPGDSCN7470.JPGDSCN7471.JPG
John,
I take it that the new projects won't be uploaded to the 3D Print 4 Yourself page? In which case it might be worth updating that page to reflect the lack of files which are indicated as
To be released soon.
- LMS standard stock (Periods 2 & 3 non-corridor and Periods 1 & 2 corridor)
- Midland Bain Clerestory Corridor Stock
- GWR Toplight stock (57ft and 70ft)
- GWR Dean Clerestory Stock including Dean 10ft bogies
- GWR Auto trailers
Robert
Robert,
I haven't reached a decision on the future uploads, the main reasons being:
1) Lack of time to prepare the ZIP bundles and explanatory notes.
2) Not sure (in view of very little interest/few enquiries to date) whether it is worth the effort.
3) Not encouraged by any expressions of interest via this forum (indeed, I do wonder whether it is worth continuing to maintain the forum in view of lack of participation).
4) Need to discuss with Anthony Terranova how he feels about this : I do retain ownership of the files/intellectual property but he has an exclusive licence to use the files to produce kits.
Regards,
John.
As a relative newcomer to Gauge 3 I've found the forum a useful source of informataion but wonder whether the advent of MMS has reduced participation in many areas?
It's also clear that for the society to edit the forum into an archive of useful guidance would itself be a major undertaking but the loss of the information might make it even more difficult to encourage new entrants to the scale.
One theme which has occurred across the forum, seemingly over many years, is the difficulty of attracting new entrants in part due to the limited supply of ready to run or easy and cheap to build kits. The advent of home 3D printing does, however, represent an opportunity to produce Gauge 3 models at costs similar to those seen in the smaller scales provided one doesn't get too carried away with adding bespoke etched or cast detailing items. In reality many such beautiful details will go unnoticed when viewing the models in use in a typical garden but will add significantly to kit or completed model costs.
John encouraged some of us to try 3D printing by his presence at the 2025 AGM and I am personally very grateful to him for that and for his LNER coach files from which I've now produced 4 coaches. Maybe if those of us who've used the files or constructed Anthony Terranova's kits were to submit articles to the Society Magazine that would help stimulate interest.
I also supsect there may be quite separate customers in that those wishing to run models in a garden probably have different requirements to those wanting finely detailed shelf or display case models.
I was at the Agm in 2025 and spoke with you John about 3d printing and decided to have a go and was pleased that I have so far I produced
the 2 different LNWR brake vans, GWR monster, 2 NE fish vans, 3 50' arc roof carriages in LMS livery
The monster, fish vans and brake vans all were dragged around Cliffs track by a class 25 at this years AGM for nearly 2 hours, this train was basically all 3d printed.
I have also printed 2 GWR 08 milk vans, 07 milk van, 013 GWR brake van, NE bogie fish van, 2 57'LMS carriages
all in various state of being assembled. I do all my printing and building in an attic room that is to hot to work in during the summer so I am back in the workshop continuing my Coal fired Black 5. it will be late autumn when I am back on the rolling stock. and printing.
John I think its like that old saying all calm on the water but the duck legs going 10 to the dozen .
You also gave me inspiration that I could also have rolling stock at a very reasonable costings
NE fish vans cost wheels and couplings and paint £30 each
57' LMS carries were wheels and couplings bit costlier at £75 each
GWR monster was the most expensive because of the buffers all in price of £100
plus the time of building.
the effort you have done to promote a differing approach to building rolling stock is second to none.
I plan to spend more time making higher detail stock with the prints you have made available.
best regards
Dave
Thank you John,
There has been a growing change in the use of forums ever since social media has taken over, hence the lower use of this forum. Sadly the lack of use by the committee members with group announcements going out via MMS saw a massive reduction in forum participation. And, with the last threat of closure, new articles simply vanished.
Fortunately, I have your LNER Gresley Buffet Car to print and build and very much look forward to doing so. The LT Dreadnoughts caught my attention, but having had poor results with outsourced LNWR Signal Box parts, I am loath to pursue another expensive and exclusive project outlay due to irreversibly poor quality printing.
Should the forums closure be the order of the day. In order to collate the information contained within, perhaps one idea is for you to contact Warners and get the forum 'scraped' and the data transferred onto RMWeb servers for future posterity? It would release you from the burden of operating and financing the forum. And also produce a diametrically different number of participants than the current membership list. Maybe expressions of interest in the 3D prints would rise with the increased membership numbers of RMWeb?
Good luck with your discussions
Robert
An interesting proposal. Transfer to RM web might open up the 3D files to modellers in other scales who could resize them in their printer software. I suspect, without having tried it, that John's files reduced to Gauge 1 or even 0 gauge would work better than when I've tried expanding freely available files to Gauge 3.
Thank you all for your messages in support of the forum and the 3D Print 4 Yourself project.
It is encouraging to know that there has been more use made of the available files than I had thought to be the case.
The forum content is safe for the present but I am approaching 78 and (when the time comes) I am not expecting my Executors to continue to run the websites and meet the related expenses.
Anthony is on vacation at present but will, I am sure, add his views when he has a connection.
John.
Hello all.
I do agree this forum does seem massively under utilised unfortunately but I think that is perhaps, in the kindest possible way, due to lack of tech use amongst many of the members, even by many peoples own admission at the AGM. In fact the comments above are the most action I have seen on here in several months and like John says, new posts/ announcements are often met with tumble weed, or so it seems.
It might be necesseray to migrate the information to a different platform at a much later date but I feel for now, this platform works well. I do not feel RMWeb should be utilised as it is unreliable and I myself lost many photos and kit building review threads when it had great issues 3 or 4 years ago. Western Thunder is a much better forum than RMweb (to me).
In terms of making files available for others on a strictly personal use basis, as it is now, for Johns files I dont have a problem with. At the end of the day, anyone that is willing to print the bits off themselves will never buy a kit but they shouldn't be stopped from accessing the files. We are afterall part of the same society/ group and in it to help each other and enjoy the hobby.
That said, I would prefer not to make projects freely available where I have huge amounts of personal investment in them i.e. the BR vans and other upcoming things as they have cost well over a thousand pounds to develop in terms of moulds and castings etc which will take selling quiet a few kits just to recover costs. That said, I am happy to sell "bits" used in these kits i.e. the lost wax brass instanter links, white metal buffer castings when they arrive for the other prototypes (the BR van ones are supplied by Mike Willians), laser cut bits etc I just haven't had time to list it all on the website yet.
I have plans to offer kits in other scales once more of the gauge 3 kits are sorted and "out there" but it will be selective as there is a lot more choice in the smaller scales and I see no point duplicating what is already available.
To give you an idea, I am looking into presflos and prestwin wagons at the moment but the 20 odd drawings I have found to date so far and the book have cost the best part of £250, so that is already effectively 2 or 3 kits that would have to be sold just to recover that bit of the costs.
So sure, printing is relatively cost effective but the research, obtaining drawings and mould making etc certainly is not but you can already benefit from my contributions such as transfers as I commission transfers from Endon Valley and pay the design cost for my needs but they are then able to be ordered direct from them but if I didn't commission them and add the costs to the kits, no one would buy a kit would they? 😅
I am ok with that though, some people want to buy a kit, some want a rtr model built and painted for them, some people just want the files to do it themselves and thats ok.
Thanks to Ant for his very thorough response which cleaarly sets out his position.
There are a number of factors "in play" when it comes to the availability of free downloads for Gauge 3 Society members.
Several of the early files I withdrew since they were designed for my Snapmaker A350 printer and components were too large to fit the more common 200/250 sizes of printer. Some have since been revised but not yet organised into a form suitable for uploading. With several newer projects under way, time is limited for "housekeeping" in respect of the older projects/downloads, hence the recent lack of updates.
The original uploads were intended as aids to scratchbuilding and not designed to be sold as as kits. I have spent hundreds of hours reworking files so the kits will be simpler to assemble and this has complicated matters, leaving two sets of files for many designs and making many of the original uploads now outdated.
There are now two categories of designs : Firstly, those which I chose to produce for my own purposes and, secondly, those which I have been asked to produce.
As Ant mentioned, he has a substantial financial stake in the second category, which includes several BR standard wagons. These are not items which I would have chosen to produce (since I model the 1930's period) so would not have been produced if Ant had not become involved.
To summarise current situation : There are several projects (including those listed by Robert /"Doddy") which are agreed can be made freely available for personal use (not to be shared with third parties and that includes commercial 3D printing services) but the BR standard wagons are to be reserved for production of kits, together with any future projects which fall into the same category.
The question of when the uploads will be expanded/updated all boils down to finding spare time, currently in short supply!
Watch for news of updates!
John.
"The forum content is safe for the present but I am approaching 78 and (when the time comes) I am not expecting my Executors to continue to run the websites and meet the related expenses"
I thought it might be useful to add a few thoughts of my own to John's comments above. I have been the G3S Webmaster for some years now, although I should be clear that I am not on the Committee (so do not speak for the Society as such). I'd like first to clear some misconceptions (that have been said to me) about our 'web' presence.
The Society's website is a fairly static object, in that it requires a degree of effort (and knowledge) to compose and present the information it presents (e.g it is not exactly 'user friendly') unlike most Forums. In some ways running the website is a little like being the Newsletter Editor (something I have also experienced) in that you need constant new content to make it really useful (new content that rarely arrives btw). So the website performs a different task to the Forums. It is however based on a commercial platform which is paid for by the Society.
The static nature of the website is partly why I introduced MMS in December 2021. MMS is based on GroupsIO, an email based service. MMS is very different in nature to most 'Forums' (and I won't bore you with the detail here). I have been using various 'Groups' for many years and thought it would be useful for G3S Members to have their own (private) Group. GIO also had several advantages from my point of view. First (most importantly) it was "free". It didn't cost the Society anything to set-up and run. Secondly, it didn't require any deep technical skills. Skills that (unlike John) I don't posess, most especially in terms of site security and systems back-up. It is therefore very simple to maintain. The one drawback is that the message & file storage is limited.
I'm making these points because I'd like people to understand that neither the G3S website or MMS were intended to (or indeed can) replace the existing (public) G3 Forums. They are all different in nature - both technically and in access terms.
That being said, both the Website and MMS are owned and managed by the Society. There will be other G3S Webmasters following on after me. As I've already stated, MMS has limited file space but the G3S Website does have unused storage that could be accessed by Members (or made public) if needed. Should John decide to retire (and therefore close this forum) then whilst we can't replace it, I would certainly be very happy to help. Perhaps by making selected '3D' files available via the G3S Website for instance.
Personally, I have always enjoyed this Forum and would miss it if it was "retired" but as my Grandson likes to say "This is the Way!" (some things are unfortunately).
Regards
IanT (G3S Webmaster)
Speaking personally, the different platforms each have different uses and I am very grateful to John and Ian for the work they do and have done for a long time now. MMS is immediate and private. This forum is also private but I find it easier to access archived messages on here, so its also a library. Facebook (which my granddaughter says is only used by "oldies") on the other hand is good for publicity and reaches a more general audience. Specialist ones like Western Thunder are generally used by the more serious modeller and those who actually make things. I don't post much these days but select the best for what I'm trying to get across. The loss of any would leave a hole.
But I do think that by ignoring the Internet our committee are mising the opportunity to get across their official messages and publicity. I am however optimistic that may change soon.
Returning to the subject of this topic, John and Ant are doing a great job for Gauge 3 and you are already having an impact as others look at G3 with envy. John, we need you to keep going for at least another 20 years please.
Mike
This forum was my first contact with Gauge 3 so it has some sentimental value to me. I wouldn't say it "got me interested" in Gauge 3 because that was happening anyway, but it made me think there were others around who wanted to do the same sort of thing that I did - build locos, and not just run steam locos built by someone else on a small range of garden railways, which otherwise seemed to be the staple for Gauge 3.
But when I posted a question or two here, the response was either none or completely off the point, so I realised that I'd have to work it all out for myself. More importantly, it suggested that in fact there wasn't that much activity in Gauge 3 building. Also, the activity on this forum has gradually diminished, not increased, in the ten years I have been a member.
The same is true for the G3 section of Western Thunder. There are now fewer of us posting than there used to be, because people who used to do so have given up or succumbed to anno domini and have not been replaced in similar numbers. I continue to post on WT but I get more response from non-G3 than G3 members. That's not a bad thing, by the way, because it helps to publicise our scale outside G3.
So, yes, there is a small and probably declining G3 activity on the internet. Maybe the pressures of space and time have made G3 less attractive to younger model railway builders, who can't afford the large houses and large gardens and workshops to build a model railway. I don't think one can blame it entirely on the committee though it is true that they don't participate much in the internet. As Roy Horrocks said recently about the lack of running on the test track at the Annual Show: "we provide the track, you provide the trains". And you can see his point. If members don't make the effort nothing will happen.
I won't exonerate the committee entirely. They could be providing more vision and leadership than they do, and some of what they currently do is certainly quite opaque to the rest of us (e.g. what was the point of the "free" membership deal and what did it achieve?). But I don't see a line of volunteers waiting to take up committee positions, do you?
If that all sounds a bit gloomy, that is because it is. There are some rays of light: John and Ant's initiative, other manufacturers "testing the waters" with new products (let's hope enough people buy them), a couple of new garden railways opening. Meanwhile I'll carry on ploughing my lonely furrow because, in spite of everything, it gives me pleasure, and producing the Newsletter because, well, someone has to.
Nick
Firstly lets all be grateful and thank those who have done and do so much to keep a small society alive. It is though quite apparent that times are changing and many railway linked societies are suffering from ageing and declining membership numbers.
The benefit to the society of the free membership deal may be debateable but it does provide potential insights into the interests of these new members, what they'd like to see and what would encourage them to renew after the initial free period (assuming a resource to make the analysis). Relative to many similar societies the AGM attendance is actually a quite significant % of total membership which indicates some success but does anybody know what proportion of this attendance was the new "free" members who migth hopefully bring new ideas and contributions to society activity.
Well, Robert/ "Doddy" certainly put a rocket under this forum when asking about the 3D projects!
Some interesting comments have been thrown into the arena and it is encouraging to know that our efforts (Ant's and mine) have not been in vain.
As for Mike's hope that I will continue for another 20 years, that would be rather "pushing it" .... I hope to keep going for another 10 plus but who knows!
Regards,
John.
Sorry if you though I was lighting rockets John. - Just pointing out the absurdity of posting a list of 'items to come' when they are already promised to a sales partner. I am not interested in those files myself.
Now I have seen the issue of the bedplate sizing limitations, it is unlikely that I will progress the Gresley Buffet Car and don't wish to purchase Dreadnought Kits after my previous experience with the LNWR signal box fittings debacle.
As for transferring the website database, whilst I used RMWeb as an example, I would also prefer Western Thunder over RMWeb anytime!
Robert
Totally understand Robert. There are lots of people out there selling bits that are 3D printed but sadly its all too easy to buy a printer and push print without them understanding how to perfect settings and parameters to achieve quality.
Lots of people are sadly happy to send out any old print and think they have done a wonderful job which leads to a flooded market with silly cheap prices but equally low quality. Some are good and even better than I can get but we charge accordingly. The costs are not simply a printer and a bit of plastic but my time and knowledge to get it right because I am not interested in churning out poorly produced rough prints.
I presume from your comments regarding not being interested in dreadnought coaches and presuming quality would be as poor as a different vendor, you did not see the quality of those models on display at the AGM a few weeks ago?
QuoteSorry if you though I was lighting rockets John.
Robert,
That comment was intended in the nicest way ... you actually originated the most intensive exchange of views in a long while! You brought the forum back-from-the-dead!
Regarding the kits being produced by Ant Terranova : Please don't pre-judge them on the basis of your experience with the signal box parts.
Ant uses the same type of Bambu Lab printers that I am using and the finish is in a different league to that of the machines used by the producer of your signal box parts.
Regards,
John.
P.S. Since typing above I see Ant has responded.