I have been busy over the past few evenings with a collection of 750mm "Metposts" and a 5Kg sledgehammer. I did initially start out with the premise that I was going to build a circa 1920's style layout in my new garden. Slowly and surely I hit my thumb and swore as I made all the lengths of track!!! I am now at the position where I can see the end of the first run of "Metposts"... As I was having my weekend breather from this I sat down and read a few entries on trackbed construction and I have been horrified that there has been no new "ideas" on the subject since about 1970(?)
My own installation will be a classical "Plank on Post" setup running at what is at one point, (maybe two?), ground level. Living in Derbyshire means the concept of "level" is unknown... I have had to use the books of Tustin, Freezer and Evans to get my ideas from. The method I am using to produce the trackbed resembles more a "cable tray' as found in large computer installations ;D I intend to use a plank of 150mm x 50mm with longitudinal stringers of 50mm x 25mm. This should give me something strong enough to walk on and take the weight of my locos -ideal for "rescues"...
Certain friends have jokingly offered the use of Laser and Gyro-Gravitic positioning tools because I have something of a "thing" about straights being straight and curves being "just so". However "snap" with a length of garden twine and blue chalk will do for me -after all it is similar to the original techniques! One of the problems NOT envisaged by the placement of my marker posts earlier this year, was that a few of them would be "colonised" by clematis, glory vines and a passion flower...
regards
ralph
Hello Cabbage and All
For garden railway inspiration try Don Neal and the Kirtly Branch in I think the August Railway Modeler for 1970
John
Yes -this is what I mean!!! The Tustin book "Garden Railways" is dated 1949, "Railways in your Garden" is dated 1994 (I have the 2001 edition too), "Outdoor Model Railways" by Martin Evans is dated 1970. Cyril Freezers "The Garden Railway Manual" is dated 1995 but the illustrations and drawings in it are clearly from an earlier time... The only other source books seem to be American and quite firmly biased towards 45mm gauge
What is interesting is the sections on G3 in all the books concerned.
1949:The Tustin Book gives quite few pictures of inter wars period G3 layouts.
1970:The Evans book notes that 2.5 inch gauge exists...
1994:The Freezer book gives 1 and quarter columns out of 160 pages to it(!)
2001:The "Railways in your Garden" book devotes some of the introduction and there are at least a few "inspirational shots" of G3 in it. (It also notes that G3 is enjoying something of a revival!!!)
But since then there hasn't really been anything new on the subject of building a G3 railway. I LOVE the illustration in the Railways in your Garden of the classical 1920's wood work and steam engine (actually in 1997) and I would adore to have this in my garden -however "domestic authorities" would never have it. Similarly a Barbie Pink painted greenhouse was outlawed by me -she has had it painted Barbie Pink on the inside and apricot on the outside, (it now matches the summer house)...
Other than the commercial retailers I haven't found any longevity rating on preservative paints. I normally use "Tanalith" treated timber and "C16" treated timber where it comes into contact with plants. This plus a good slathering with Cuprinol seems to give me about 5 years worth of playtime -but as I am getting old I think I would like something a little more robust -so I am going to use epoxy glaze to seal the wood in. I don't know how long this will extend the life of the timbers -it could even shorten them -but I think the risk is worth it. This is normally used to embed cables in -and I have a good local supply -all of it out of date stock from the local skip!!! The stuff slowly oxidises in the tins and after 6 months a sealed 5 litre tin has the consistency of rice pudding -but I am not fussy...
regards
ralph
Yes I know that I have not kept up this thread.... However I have other more pressing domestic matters to deal with.
PeakyTim and Dave454 both know why I have an aching back. I have been construction the corner that will be the mainstay (ha ha) of my track. This is made from 25mm thick C6 rated tannilith treated timber. Initially it was 18 modules, then 9 then 3 and tomorrow finally united into 1. Each part is hand cut and glued and screwed. The curve is 3.35 metres in radius and 40 centimetres wide with a thickness of 7.5 centimetres. It used nearly a box of screws and 1.5 Kilogrammes of Urea Formaldehyde glue powder...
It weighs 85 Kilogrammes
Tomorrow a couple of old college chums are going to help me mix concrete and fix the wooden posts into the ground and then place the curve on top of it.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic28.jpg)
regards
ralph
Like this....
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic32.jpg)
regards
ralph
Now I have two straights (I seem to remember that Hornby was a lot easier.....)
Each of the two straight modules is 2.4metres long (my timbers are 4.8metres long). The house is at the East end of the garden and the North facing straight heads towards the veg beds. The West facing straight will have a further six straight modules bolted to it. Thereafter I have to make a decision on wether to simply terminate or attempt to head towards the summer house and sun deck through the orchard.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic37.jpg)
regards
ralph
Question to all potential visitors!!!!
How long is your train likely to be?
Now this may seem to be a strange question but it directly relates to how many 4.8m long sections I have to build compared to 2.4m sections...
2.4m is long enough for a loco a couple of carriages and a toad -or some wagons and a toad. As my locos are a little on the large size (and probably about to get larger!) this is of interest to me. The smallest I have is a NYC 'S' Motor at 47cm, the longest is the GIP "Krokodil" at 97cm. The largest G3 loco that is likely to move along the track is the C.M&St Paul BiPolar (1-B0-D0-D0-B0-1).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MILW_Bi-Polar_drawing.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MILW_Bi-Polar_drawing.jpg)
And there is the future possibility of a trio of 4X locos, (of various types), thus giving the possibility of "blue star" MU working...
So, what would you expect to run as I would like to be as hospitable as possible and allow my guests to run their trains?
regards
ralph
Ralph,
If I brought all my goods rolling stock to run then the freight train length could be at the latest count = 26 plus a choice of 3 brake vans so could be 29 or 27 depending on how many brake vans in train. I will let you work out the length. Oh I forgot the non-passenger stock i.e. one horse box. Add No. 9 W&U luggage van & NE 4 wheel parcels/utility van.
Looking forward to that, at least won't have to do a 200+ mile round trip for a decent running session.
Cheers
Dave
454
OK -so if I say that; a loco is 60cm, a Wagon is 25cm, a Toad is 40cm, and a Carriage is 80cm -then this gives me a rough working "order" that I can build on.
It is looking increasingly like a 4.8m section at the end of the double track to allow storage and swapping, rather big and somewhat heavy -but if that is what it takes?
That would give; Loco 15 wagons and a Toad, Loco 4 carriages and a Brake. This should be enough for everyone to play with and watch shuttle up and down the garden.
Tomorrow I am the Derby Beer Festival morning to mid afternoon. A suitable time for old chums to discuss railways -and ideas. And of course -sample beer!!!
regards
ralph
I got fed up trying to keep my track level and I had difficulty achieving the required 8ft minimum radius within the confines of my narrow garden. Then, I saw a recommendation on this forum to use 'Filcris Ltd' recycled plastic for a track-bed. I designed mine using their grey board, computer cut to my radius and width. Then, this was secured to their flexible edging using stainless steel 'turbo ultra' screws from 'Screwfix' to form an 'I' beam structure. These screws cut in no problem - no need for pilot holes or countersinks.
For across my patio I used removable sections, which are secured together using resin and stainless steel pinned oven hinges from a firm in Leeds. The structure on the patio is supported using adjustable plastic kitchen unit legs available from 'Amazon'. I realise that my solution can be a little costly - but it is a long term investment and should require little or no maintenance.
The track is secured using 'Interlink Fleximounts', the height of which conveniently matches the thickness of the grey board, so they can be screwed to the underside of the board up through easy to cut holes in the board.
Joe
Ralph,
Your developing layout looks great, keep up the good work!
Ian the Gauge '3'Pirate
Well despite the temperature and added humidity, (I was regularly "sprayed" by my son with his Super Soaker), I did manage to build and fit a complete 4.8m long section in the afternoon. This shows the section underside before it was slid out onto the posts and fastened there.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic38.jpg)
After some fiddling with a level on a length of 25x50 wood -It now looks like this.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic39.jpg)
As you can see unfortunate news for the Largest Pear tree and more for the Largest Plum....
regards
ralph
Gentlemen Start Your Engines.....
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic44.jpg)
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic45.jpg)
The drag strip for diesels and electrics has been constructed. Although there is a kink of two that I have to plane out....
regards
ralph
All the fixed sections have been constructed. The movable sections are still in the wood pile.
So for your cinematic delectation Brassica Productions and Glass Hammer PRESENT!!!
http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/cabbagep/coffee.m4v (http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/cabbagep/coffee.m4v)
Ice Creams and refreshments are available from the kiosk....
regards
ralph
Watched the video; well done Ralph.
Ian the Gauge '3'Pirate
Charles,
Permission was given years ago -in fact it was one of the search criteria for our "last house". My late wife said that AFTER I had built The summer house, The sun deck, The greenhouse and the downstairs "facilities" I could build my railway. Unfortunately my wife passed away on October the 17th of last year. I finished building the downstairs facilities in May.
Everyone who has looked at it has gone "OMG that is SO Sheila!!!"
On the 16th of June I ordered the wood for the track bed...
regards
ralph
This is the section that Charles is talking about.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic48.png)
The hinged plate will fold back onto the sector plate. The combined length of the two is 4.8metres (surprise!). It will be moved across from one track to the other by an M10 screw mechanism (see below).
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic43.jpg)
My Son and I have worked out that it would be possible to operate 3 locos with a wagon train and that the scale distance covered for the back and forth shunting would be 2.5Km. Matthew says that having the sector plate electrically cranked would be more fun. I disagree!!! I also envisage the single track sidings at the end of the layout to be converted to another two track sector plate - something that he disagrees with!!!
regards
ralph
Charles,
Those pictures are not of my layout! You will have to ask Joe Watt what the load bearing qualities are like. As to cranking I could crank the family Austin Westminster as a teenager and I can still crank "Gertrude" MM 1,000,000 although bending down to do so is getting difficult....
On a brighter note I have nearly finished fabricating all the parts and it is down to post hole digging -which might be easier after 8cm of rain in the past week.
regards
ralph
Ralph,
Electric may sound nice, but from experience with a much smaller version in a smaller scale, hand cranking gives a lot more "feel" and easier to align the tracks exactly. I know you can have limit switches etc but by hand you have control - and its cheaper!
How will you align the tracks - simple door bolt?
Mike
Mike,
I was going to use a "drop bolt". This is simply a vertical length of bar that sits above a covered slot. Once the slide moves to the correct position the slot uncovers and the drop bolt falls through. Father and son are still debating signalling though. I am old fashioned and have constructed a "truth table" for reed relays whilst my son decries this and would prefer the use of a Raspberry Pi to control it.
But at the moment I am afraid that I taking more than a few paracetamol to ease the back ache. This is due to picking the fruit harvest rather than wood work!!! I had to "give in" at about 3pm this afternoon but I had picked 15 collenders worth of; Red, White, and Black currants, Jostaberries, Gooseberries, Tay and Logan berries, Cloud Berries, Boysen Berries and "Oregan Grapes".
The Beast from the East in March has cost me more than a few plants...
regards
ralph
The wood store is now finally empty....
The folding section has been completed and now everything awaits the posts and paint prior to cladding with the roofing felt.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic48.jpg)
This shows the "S" shaped "T" bracket that should be holding a gate. It is 300mm long but only 50mm wide. The "S" shape was hand bent in the vise using a paving brick. It is held to the folding piece with a mixture of 50mm and 75mm screws.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic49.jpg)
This shows the completed structure. The M6x100mm bolts fold into their slots and pin the structure together. There are side cheeks with ABS rubbing strips to help everything align during folding.
Now we have to return to the gardening and earthworks section of the layout. Hopefully posts and cocrete work cn commence at the weekend.
regards
ralph
OK -it may not seem like much.... However the sector plate and folding flap have ben moved into position. This involved some "inspired" concrete work and the recycling of the plug cut out of the bathroom wall -it is cylindrical and has a 10mm hole cut through the centre!!!
So, while it all sets solid (it is "green" now) I decided to get out some track and see how it would all look.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic56.jpg)
This is the view looking from the very end of the sector plate. The tracks diverge from the folding flap end to the end of the sector plate. You can see the hinges poking up at the end of the spirit level. tomorrow more Cuprinol shopping and a roller to apply bitchumastic adhesive with -yes things are getting exciting around the cabbages.....
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic57.jpg)
This shows the sliding end of the folding plate. There will be one sleeper hanging over the gap to unify the two. The crank set up is fixed to the folding flap -but is as yet unmounted to the end of the fixed trackbed which has the set of points on it.
regards
ralph
This should really be entitled the boys from the icky sticky black stuff!!! After having "pre-heated" my adhesive (a morning in the greenhouse) I cleared the decks and we unrolled and chopped some lengths of roofing felt (5 in total). I dunked the brush and the ick flowed off it smoothly.... So losing no time I daubed it over the wood surface and watched for the bubbles as the solvent out gassed. We dropped the first piece of felt onto the tacky adhesive and rollered it into contract with the ick.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpicAA.jpg)
(Yes that is me in the hat!)
We went around all the edges with roofing clouts and then sealed the flap of the next piece to it with more ick.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic58.jpg)
And so we continued somewhat stickily along the length of the sector plate until we reached the folding piece and -well frankly we had both had enough!!!
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic59.jpg)
A small "Topping Out Ceremony" was conducted with a hose pipe and all of the joints held. So we went and had lunch.
regards
ralph
Last night after having laid 10metres of roofing felt along the drag strip -I had to play!!!! I slung down a few lengths of track and eventually there were 18 yards of track along the drag strip.... The next problem was finding any of my SLA's with any charge in them. Eventually I found 2 with enough juice left to top 11 volts between them and gleefully slung them into "No 5" the NER EF-1.
We both laughed and clapped as it grumbled along the track from one end to another at a scale speed of 30mph. This is 5mph above the speed limit. After a few out and backs I decided to go and get "Maud" the NYC "S" motor. Fitted with the same set of "dead" batteries Maud made 70mph down the drag strip. Maud need new "lucar" connectors to her SLA packs as the ones she has are too loose and can fall off when fitting the SLA's to their holders.
Today I am resting my back, getting more nails, an a large bottle of brush cleaner. This seems to be the only thing that will get the adhesive off skin (and body hair!) without too much pain...
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic60.jpg)
regards
ralph
Ralph, construction looking great, well done! When its finished, will you be videoing some of your fascinating loco's and putting the results on 'You Tube'?
Ian the Gauge '3' Pirate
Ian
If at the end of that long straight the curve is 12 feet radius and if the opportunity arises there will be one visiting loco performing on that straight that I know of and that will be on Youtube.
;)
Wishing hopefully
Dave
454
Sorry Dave....
The big curve is 3.35metre (11 feet) radius. The small curve at the top is 4.8metre (15 feet 8 inches) radius. So you can thunder up and down the straight but not the entire length of the track. But I think as the curves are all 1mm gauge widened you should be able to get slowly around all the curves. There are also transition straights leading into and out of each curve. As to putting the locos on You Tube -this question has been asked before and I think the answer has to be "yes".
This is where I shame faced have to admit that all I have in rolling stock are locos....
Building the carriages and wagons was something, "I would get around to", once the track work was laid -but in the meantime "there is this loco that I have been thinking about...."
regards
ralph
Don't worry Ralph we can soon fix that. The Panda can deliver.
:)
Dave
454
Well for two days now there has been SILENCE from the construction of the railway.... I have nailed down all the track that I have built. This is both welcome and worrying!!! I have enough white metal chairs to complete the four curves required for the big 90 degree curve near the house. I think that I have enough brass rail to complete what I have to build. The "up" line to the summer house is complete. The sector plate has been populated with track, the folding flap also. Some fun and games have ensued with getting the lumps and bumps out of the track work. Yes I will confess to "tapping the track" smooth -over the 8 years that some of it has remained on the shelves of the shed it has "sagged" slightly in a few places...
As discussed with Tim and Dave -I am going to abandon the white metal chairs and wood sleepers for the Cliff Barker plastic sleeper assemblies. This will enable even my son (soon to be 14 and 6 feet 2 inches...) to help build track.
regards
ralph
Well after having done an "audit" of the stuff in my shed I have enough white metal chairs to make 4 yards of track. I have 50 lengths of rail and several kilos of "creosoted" sleepers. I have decided to finish the big curve with the remaining chairs. But while I wait for my order -here is what it looks like.
(http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/constructionpic62.jpg)
The timbers have been painted with Cuprinol "Autumn Red" and the roofing felt stuck to the top with modern Bitumen adhesive. The original instructions in HGs book recommended red lead and hot pitch, (errrrmmm no thanks!).
The trackwork under the fruit trees has had one added benefit.... After the wind storms of yesterday I have a nice display of plums and gages to pick up without hunting for them in the grass!!!!
regards
ralph
Well All the track that can be laid has been laid and I wondered how well the track laying looked from the railhead -so to speak. I put a camera on the front of my one piece of rolling stock and pressed "record"
So for your cinematic delectation Brassica Productions and Glass Hammer PRESENT!!!
http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/cabbagep/cake.m4v
Once again -Ice Creams and refreshments are available from the kiosk....
regards
ralph
Well done Ralph, any chance of putting it up on YouTube as well? Also, as you have come to a temporary halt on track construction, I would suggest clamping a bit of wood across that end in case anything escapes and ends up damaged on the ground below.
Ian the Gauge '3' Pirate
Lovely to see handmade track Ralph, instead of implausibly perfect moulded sleeper stuff. That's quite a run too, and all taken at a steady scale pace. It is obviously a post-steam era line with all that flammable foliage hanging all over the place! Enjoy the achievement!
Cheers
Tim :)
After the purchase of 994 CB plastic sleepers I am nearing completion of the track work. All that remains is to purchase some more rail once the existing straights have been laid and some gauge widened sleepers. The two curves are at the end of the layout and unlike the huge double track curve by the house are more "Ad Hoc" than planned...
So what I intend to do is to assemble some gauge widened track after having bent the rail to the correct curvature nailed it along side the existing straights I will hit the ends with the angle grinder. Hopefully the ends will then align and I can "jimmy" a fishplate in to hold them aligned.
We went to the Shepshed show yesterday and had a good look around. The Squires stall did the usual to my wallet... During the afternoon and late evening Father and son discussed a few things. Matthew will start to build his 5Bel using modified Williams Models GE wagon chassis and yes after surgery it will work! I have been thinking of adapting a Raspberry Pi to handle the signalling and so on. I had my first look at Python this morning... I would prefer a machine orientated language like FORTH but we will see what happens(!)
regards
ralph
Wow Ralph your Mathew must be a genius, building a 5Bel using Williams modified GE wagon chassis.
Now that would take a miracle, as I only know a 5Bel as a Brighton Belle Pullman coach.
Water into wine!
Unless of course I misunderstood exactly what a 5Bel really is.
Cheers
Dave
454
Dave,
Not really... it is the frames that will become the bogie sides and the motors that he has will power six of the ten bogies. It may not be that accurate a model but it will not be his first attempt at it. The 5Bel is something he has wanted to build for years and I believe that he finally getting the hang of modelling. I silver soldered the frames up after tea last night and although it says soft solder -I know my son!!!!
Pocket money and other "commitments" will prevent him buying another "bogie" for about 3 weeks but version 7 has begun....
regards
ralph
My hero!
Dave
454
This is the end of this years work! I have a new term to get ready for both Father and Son. but I am not unhappy with the progress. Phase two is now complete.
So for your delectation Brassica Productions present a Glass Hammer film
http://cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/cabbagep/tea+biscuits.m4v (http://cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/cabbagep/tea+biscuits.m4v)
Ice creams and refreshments available from the Kiosk....
regards
ralph
Well done Ralph, already looking a great line. Are you going to post this clip on YouTube?
Ian the Gauge '3' Pirate
I have only ever posted one thing to You Tube.... Maybe when I have finished phase three I will have something that I feel worth watching. Phase three is a balloon loop from where the "tin" is back through the orchard and connects again at the set of points under the big cherry tree. As it stands the track length from start to "tin" is just under a scale mile.
Phase four will complete the circum garden loop.
So far "Dave" is the only other person to have run locos on it.....
regards
ralph