The Forum for Gauge 3 Model Trains

In the Clubroom => What's Missing in G3? => Topic started by: John Candy on May 16 2009 20:20

Title: Essential New Products?
Post by: John Candy on May 16 2009 20:20
I need not draw your attention to the items which are not readily available in G3...if you are a committed G3 modeller you will be only too aware.

The Gauge 3 Society is currently investigating the possibility of introducing a few new items and in order to gauge interest I shall be introducing Polls over the next few weeks.

Meanwhile, it would be interesting to understand which items members feel are most urgently required to fill the gaps in the ranges of products currently available.

Incidentally, a Gauge 3 Scale ruler is at an advanced planning stage and will be produced in stainless steel with a provisional price in the region of 12 Pounds.
A POLL IS NOW IN OPEN FOR VOTING : SEE POLLS FOR NEW PRODUCTS BOARD TOPICS
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: Traininvain on May 20 2009 16:01
In my view the society should undertake some research with a view to starting to produce some high quality patterns to provide investment castings of use in wagon and carriage construction. The patterns could be produced either by traditional means or via rapid prototyping, as is now being adopted by the 2.5inch Gauge Association for the Crab and Class 66.

We could also give some thought to producing some rolling stock kits to go with the Class 66 - e.g. a basic laser cut kit of parts which could be assembled into popular prototypes such as container flats etc.
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: MikeWilliams on May 21 2009 09:55
Or some concrete sleepers, heavy flay-bottom rail and pandrol clips?  Would look nice, but would it sell in volume?

Mike
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: Moonraker on Jun 29 2009 09:36
Having only just joined recently, I guess that I missed this poll.

My suggestion for an essential product is a generic kit of live steam parts. In other words, Cylinders, Walshearts gear, Internal Stephenson gear and a boiler with gas burner and accessories. That would allow people without machine tools and only a limited workshop to build live steam locos.

But may be such a thing exists already and I haven't found it yet.

Peter L
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: cabbage on Jun 29 2009 12:11
Errrmmm...

This is actually under some (very slow) e-mail discussion... The model we have been looking at is the SECR "C" class. This is an 0-6-0 tender loco. The mechanics of it could be electric, (via powered tender for example), or live steam, (via a gas fired centre flue design). The design could be modded to produce anything from the raw parts. The purists will scream "Blue Murder" -but I have been feeding figures quietly into my design system.

It should thus be possible to produce a "steam module" that uses the Society supplied cylinders, a standard gas fired boiler of the Centre flue or Brotan Water tube type. This could then be used to as the basis to "graft" on other types from. There would have to be two basic modules. The one for internal cylinders Joys' valve gear or Greenlys' corrected valve gear rather than Stephenson -for simplicity(?) The one for external would be Walshearts' valve gear -or Hackworths' -again for simplicity. I have seen the Baker valve gear and I have tried on numerous occassions to work out an arrangement formula -however I am not "happy" with any of my results.

So -Yes. The committee is looking into a standard loco -in its normal left hand, inverted , and then shoved in sideways approach!!!

regards

ralph
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: Ted Sadler on Jul 15 2009 11:24
I agree with what Mike Williams said elsewhere on the site: I don't think it's a good idea to compete with suppliers of 'mainstream' products like loco & rolling stock kits. Here are some alternative suggestions, in no particular order (or merit!):

Modular semaphore signal parts. e.g. a fixed base (ground) module that connects to a lever/wire or compressed air supply, and maybe a power feed for lamps. The signal upperworks could just be plugged in for instant operation, and removed just as quickly, either for security or when the live steamers are running (I have noticed that their owners have to move pretty quickly at times and probably don't want obstructions in the way). Items like this may also be of interest to 16mm and 2.5 inch gauge owners.

Modular colour light signal parts using the above system.

LED lighting kit for G3 coaches.

A 'video camera wagon' for getting the driver's or guard's view live on screen.

Oil and heat-resistant transfers for locomotives and rolling stock. G3 running and handling demands altogether more resistant materials than the smaller scales.

Pre-printed private owner or company wagon sides (above remarks about toughness/durability apply).

A Gauge 3 Society Get-Togethers tea urn - about 25 pints capacity would seem to be about right. Coal-fired? That's probably a step too far.....

Regards, Ted
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: blagdon on Jul 25 2009 21:20
One very useful product would be a SR / GWR rail-built buffer stop. I have heard talk of using cast brass to over-come the rail bending difficulties.
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: John Candy on Jul 25 2009 22:32
Regarding buffer stop blocks, the Committee is currently considering the options for at least one prototype stop block (see the 'Polls' section of this Forum).

The initial view of our expert on kit production (Mike Williams) was that brass castings of the size required for stop blocks would be extremely expensive.
Currently, alternative methods of fabrication are under consideration and a report is expected soon from the member who is responsible for production of the Society's track jigs and gauges.

In the course of the discussions under the Buffer Stop Poll topic, mention was made of a GWR stop being made by a member.

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: MikeWilliams on Jul 27 2009 23:11
Wheel Form Tool.

Am I alone in wanting a wheel form tool?  In the smaller gauges I have occasionally turned my own wheels, and a form tool makes it much easier.  The length of cut probably means that you can't just wind the tool in and profile the wheel in one go, but it can be used as a template and to remove small amounts of metal.

Mike
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: Gauge3er on Jul 28 2009 22:31
A wheel form tool would be great to have.  I friend of mine here in the Los Angeles area had a large batch of wheels made for him using this technique, but the lathe, he said, was huge.  I think you have a great idea for a method of creating the tool and would be quite interested to hear if it is viable.

Personally, I can't think of anything that I dislike more than turning wheels myself.  I recently built a caboose (brake van?), slicing the 8 disks from a cast iron bar and then turning them on my 8" lathe.  Not being an experienced professional, the job took a very long time and I found it very tedious to try to get the contours to match on all 8 wheels.  I have decided to have them outsourced on a CNC machine from now on.
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: midnight miller on Nov 27 2009 23:33
Hello All

Yes a wheel form tool for me , I would like to do my own or at least be able to . Also a scale  working ? hand throw point lever ought to have a market

                                                          John . T
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: Derek King on Nov 28 2009 13:35
Yes, I would also like a scale working hand-throw point lever. Either the short handle type with disc balance weight or the long handle type would do (or even both?).

Derek.
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: midnight miller on Nov 28 2009 22:48
Hello All

Anybody out there got any prototype infrmation and I might just have a go at some pattern makeing


                                                  John . T
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: John Candy on Nov 29 2009 18:09
I understand that GRS will soon be releasing a working brass point lever.

Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: MikeWilliams on Nov 29 2009 20:06
John,

I'm sure I can find a drawing of the LNWR standard type.  I have a lot of real relics, but unfortunately not one of those!  If you want to go ahead please drop me a line off-list.

Mike
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: midnight miller on Dec 06 2009 21:22
Hello All

Has the society or anybody else done a 12" to the  1ft conversion table to gauge 3 , millimeters to inch / ft ? M.R.J. did some years ago for the smaller scales , But as they struggle to addmit the existance of O gauge I am not going through my back numbers to see if they did gauge 3



                                            John . T
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: IanT on Dec 06 2009 22:04
Hi John,

Well, we have just introduced a Society 'Scale' rule - it shows scale feet (up to 25') - with 1" divisions and costs 11 pounds. Other than that a spreadsheet will give you any range of scale conversion table you want pretty quickly.

Ian T
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: Derek King on Dec 07 2009 09:26
Gents,

No, MRJ never did a G3 Convertion Table, but I have produced my own on an Excel Spreadsheet. I don't know how to distribute it via the Forum, but you can have for inclusion on the G3 Web Site if required. I have already sent a copy direct to John.

Derek.
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: John Candy on Dec 10 2009 11:42
Derek,

If you send me the file to webmaster@gauge3.org.uk
I will arrange for it to be downloadable.

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: Christopher on Jan 05 2010 18:25
I have just joined this forum so please excuse a number of comments

Scales; The scale ruler seems a good idea but as a matteer of curiosity what scale factor does it actually use.

Form Tool; An excellent idea. Also possibly a gauge as sold by NMRA which has various critical dimensions on it such as wheel back to back dimensions etc.

New Model; Someone mentioned a SCR 'C'Class as an appropriate loco. The Association has wheel patterns and cylinders sets for this loco and the drawings from Mr Downs are well drawn and complete. GRS do a lot of the external detail.
This seems to be a loco that would benefit from a new boiler for gas firing. I would suggest dual flue hedghog type or radiant heater.
Otherwise a very pretty loco.

Standard Parts:  Could agree more - its what Greenly et al did many years ago

regards
Christopher
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: cabbage on Jan 05 2010 19:46
The scale used is 1:22.6 -I have one of the Original Rules with the "slight numeric problem"...

A form cutter may be useful at the smaller scales but to be honest, it would have to made from T/C brazed onto a length of tool steel bar -far simpler to use a standard T/C tool bit and a compound slide.

The society does sell various gauges... However, I for one would not welcome Mr Stanley Ames and his N.M.R.A. anywhere near Gauge 3.

"The Venture" will be a kit of parts to build one of 5(?) types of loco. The SECR does still get "a look in" with the O1 loco though. Although I have not seen any of the plans for "The Venture", from the person involved in its design, I would imagine it has a JTvR type "C" boiler, and this would be a single cylinder with slip eccentric valve gear.

Having built a "porcupine" boiler, I would say that this type is more suited to the individual builder -than commercial production. The time taken to produce quills and seat them in the barrel pushes the time envelope badly. I was doing really well and I fitted 63 quills in a day... I also agree with current theories that the steam raising effect of a porcupine boiler, is more to do with the large number of nucleation points provided by the quills -rather than the amount of heat transferred into the water by them.

regards

ralph
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: blagdon on Jan 09 2010 14:30
Though of the day from the bunker, in view of the weather, we need a simple snow plough design. Ideally an independent vehicle, but without rthe nasty curved vertical wedge all to many designs seem to have. Any suggestions of suitable prototypes?   :
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: cabbage on Jan 09 2010 14:47
Yes!

The Meyer snow plough as built by SLM for the swiss electric lines. This was steam powered and had a separate steam driven snow cutter and blower.

regards

ralph
Title: Re: Essential New Products? Snowplough!
Post by: Ted Sadler on Jan 09 2010 22:52
I photographed an NER plough under restorartion at the NRM in 1999 - construction looks to be fairly simple. If I can work out how post pictures here, I'll do it, otherwise e-mail it to John. I also have several other pictures of NER snowploughs and a drawing of the MR Hellifield snowplough if anyone's interested. Ted
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: MikeWilliams on Jan 09 2010 23:29
Ralph,

I know you like the weird and wonderful, but a working steam-driven snow cutter and blower?  I dare you!

Mike
Title: Re: Essential New Products?
Post by: cabbage on Jan 10 2010 08:11
Mike,

(There is a reason that I have a set of plans for this baby.....)

The bodywork was wood and it was varnished and waxed to a high polish!!!

regards

ralph