G3 Forum

Steam Outline Locomotives => Battery Powered Steam Outline Locos. => Topic started by: AshleyW on Feb 18 2019 17:31

Title: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: AshleyW on Feb 18 2019 17:31
i contacted ace trains to see if they would consider g3 . looking at their range, which is now far more detailed than the older hornby type stuff (see the brit/9f/duchess!!) they look to have the sort of robustness required for garden use with the right amount of detail. they replied within a day, so i hope they come up with a quote for a min order and see what transpires !
ash
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: LankyTank on Feb 18 2019 18:17
What loco are you thinking of Ashley?
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: John Candy on Feb 18 2019 18:30
ACE look to have improved the realism of their products since I last looked at them (a few years ago) my memory suggests they used to be rather "Hornby tinplate 0" in appearance.

The current stock look very realistic and detailed.

Am tempted to even buy a Southern N15 ("King Arthur" class) in "0", just to stand on the shelf and remind me of Wimbledon in my youth!

Carriages would be welcome, if they are as good as the locos appear to be.

So far as G3 locos are concerned, I could be tempted by a Stanier "Black 5"!

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: MikeWilliams on Feb 18 2019 21:27
They describe their own products as "super tinplate" and that looks about right to me.
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: AshleyW on Feb 18 2019 21:38
if we are to try to get another manufacturer into gauge 3 we need to try be more open to what they may do. as regards a wish list, i had the same problem when i said maxitrak/accucraft could do locos for not much more than  the price of their gauge one locos, every one has a wish list, but before that can happen they need convincing there is a market and that may be getting started with a simple engine , i suggested the large prairie may be such a loco or maybe some thing like the southern mogul. but realistically they will need to sell 50 units to make it viable. the newer locos are much more detailed, but the likes of the duchess is not there regular manufacturing process. i agree a black5 may be a popular loco, and if every one has one, then it'd be like the days of steam! how much would members pay for an electric/ battery tender loco rtr if they were prepared to embark upon it ?
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: John Candy on Feb 18 2019 21:50
Ash,

If I hadn't recently ordered a GWR Large Prairie (31XX class) from Mike Danby, that would have been a "runner" for me (I am not a great fan of the GWR but need locos for Monkton Priors).

Southern (even though I lived not much more than a mile from the LSWR main line until I was 21) does not fit in with my plans.

"Black 5": I would be willing to pay around 2500 for a radio-controlled accurate model of good quality..... I could get one built for no more than that.

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ?? and another possible new player....??
Post by: LankyTank on Feb 19 2019 08:28
So, I get up, switch on the forum & find that the wish list has started - with 'big' locos.

Then I go from here to Western Thunder & find that one of the guys from Ixion (people in the 7mm world will be aware of this organisation - 'smashing' the RTR market) is floating the idea of producing a Manning Wardle 0-4-0 H class in G3 - apparently this idea was floating some 5 years ago - but was still born due to..... lack of interest, in fact, no interest.....! It's likely to be to the same spec as the 7mm version.


Might be a bit 'delicate' for garden running but dare say it could be beefed up to accomadate - but it's small enough for that indoor shunting plank.
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: John Candy on Feb 19 2019 09:06
Quote
So, I get up, switch on the forum & find that the wish list has started - with 'big' locos.

My preference is on basis that the choice would need to be from the range currently produced in "0" gauge.

I could equally well be persuaded that a Midland 1P 0-4-4T, GWR "Metro" 2-4-0T, GNR N1 or N2 0-6-2T  would be acceptable. I don't favour "industrial" locos BUT the Ixion Fowler 0-4-0DM (as GWR No.1) would be acceptable.
A Hunslet 0-6-0DM of the LMS type another possible "runner".

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: MikeWilliams on Feb 19 2019 20:23
If they do a G3 model I suggest they be left to decide what they think is best, based on their experience of other scales.  The only models they do that I know anything about are the LNWR Motor Car Van and Passenger Brake Van, both of which are entirely fictitious.  The LNWR never had a 6-wheeled motor car van of any description and the brake vans were nothing like that.  However, they sell in the smaller scale so presumably people don't care about that, so long as it looks nice.

Sorry.

Mike
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: Traininvain on Feb 20 2019 17:32
Sounds good Mike.

Make mine a Manning Wardle pacific then ...

Ian
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: John Candy on Feb 22 2019 08:25
Looks like this is another proposal that has fallen on deaf ears?

If orders for 50 are required, that is not likely to be achievable since that would be a high percentage of the total G3 community ..... of which a proportion are only into live steam (either RTR or built by themselves).

How about a brass kit (locos and/or coaches) from the likes of Worsley Works? They only required an order for 5 when I last enquired....but there was not even sufficient interest to proceed!

A large proportion appear to want RTR locos and are not prepared to build from kits (other than wagons) which, when combined with the live steam only brigade, leaves a minuscule market.

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: cabbage on Feb 22 2019 10:50
Hmmm.... I have on the shelves a modified LBSC "Southern Maid" from LBSC plans and a "Black Five" kit. What I have done to them would probably make LBSC  and MEL denounce me. The problem of getting a mainstream manufacturer interested in making G3 stuff is the limited market and the slow takeup. I expect to have SM and B5 finished for the 2020 AGM where they will probably terrify the assembled...

We have to admit that G3 is a minority arena there will be more people than members of the G3S, even if we are charitable and say that we are a quarter - then that is less than a thousand.

Commercially a G3 loco would also have to be an N2.5GA as well. As all my locos are scratch buildt I would have to say that only two could fall into this category, the steam powered SM and the electric NER EE-1.

The Venture loco is a potential way forward as it is a co-operative with one main supplier but capable of being a number of locos. But, I feel that as a group we are starting to become our own suppliers. Although I do not sell anything I have a complete CAD CAM setup. With it I am making the CNC machine to make the EMUs and DMUs that I feel are my next direction. Thus I am my own supplier!

If you look around the AGM tomorrow see how many of the small suppliers are also modellers.

Regards

Ralph
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: John Candy on Feb 22 2019 12:12
Another problem with a lot of proposals is the long "lead time".....many years more often than not.

You mention "Venture" (LNWR Cauliflower 18Inch Goods) which has been in the pipeline for (?9) years and is still not available. It started off as a co-operative project but Mike was left "holding the baby" when all the other participants dropped out!

Slater's MR Kirtley Goods seems to have been nearing completion for a few years now .... will we live long enough to see it appear, I ask?

The Sentinel (with Ian T and myself at the sharp end) was developed (and pre-production examples produced) in under 12 months  but it has taken another 3 years to see it reach the batch production stage (first examples should be ready soon).... not a criticism of Mike but simply a fact that a lot of resources are required to produce a production batch, which small producers may not have available.

I wonder whether a batch of brass kits (produced by Worsley, MEL or similar) combined with a willingness by a model-maker (possibly someone like Mike Danby) to assemble the kits in small batches at a fixed price could be a practical solution.

Regards,
John.
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: MikeWilliams on Feb 22 2019 13:49
... You mention "Venture" (LNWR Cauliflower 18Inch Goods) which has been in the pipeline for (?9) years and is still not available....  John.

John is not wrong, but anyone going to Flitwick tomorrow will see a real live Cauliflower, albeit not actually in steam.  This is #2 of ten and I have #3.

However, the vast majority of potential purchasers are not regular users of this forum, so don't be too despondent.

Mike
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: Traininvain on Feb 22 2019 15:55

(https://i.ibb.co/ZgjhgFz/Cauliflower-web.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZgjhgFz)
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: MikeWilliams on Feb 22 2019 17:44
That's #1 but we have hijacked the thread about ACE trains!

Mike
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: MikeWilliams on Feb 22 2019 18:04
Ashley, I have never been involved with RTR production but if the main stumbling block is quantity, then would be best starting point be a common wagon such as a wooden 7-plank 12ton or steel 16ton?  Some are available in Gauge 1, so presumably the Chinese manufacturers could enlarge the design fairly simply at a price probably around £150 complete, RTR, painted and lettered.  But the manufacturer would need to be selected carefully as some of the Gauge 1 RTR wagons I've seen are just not good enough.

As an example, the G1 RTR wagons I can find are just not right, but the Lionheart (now Dapol) 7mm ones are very good.  I wonder where they are made?

Mike
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: John Candy on Feb 22 2019 19:00
How about a battery/electric Cauliflower?

All the castings (or at least the patterns for them) are available and I presume brass etches could be made available for other parts (e.g. boiler).

John.
Title: Re: ACE TRAINS G 3 ??
Post by: MikeWilliams on Feb 22 2019 19:10
Well yes, I do plan that John, once the steam ones are finished.  There are a lot of castings available now and the platework for the engine is pantograph milled, so able to be replicated.  But its not mass appeal RTR, so you too are hijacking Ashley's thread!

Mike