The G3 Kingscale Britannia

[454]

We are several weeks now since the deliveries of the Kingscale Britannia was commenced at the beginning of November 2012.

Feedback and comment of this model is very sparse considering that there are presumably more than 50 in existence inclusive of the unpainted prototype and the display model seen at exhibitions & at GRS.

The only Youtube files are the Kingscale steamtest and the running of the prototype unpainted version around a track in the Midlands. There was an article in Garden Rail magazine which reviewed it also. There is one testimonial from a purchaser which may be read on the Kingscale website.

Google does not seem to reveal any more info.

So now that seems to be the lot unless someone knows different.

It leads me to think that the majority of the models are all in showcases and will never see action.

My knowledge of this loco is that I know of 3 others not mentioned above, 2 have not yet been steamed. One is having problems with quality issues that are being resolved.

I know it is winter and the lead up to the festive season so I can only assume that the bulk of the models are in Santa's sack awaiting for delivery on the 25th.

Dave Lowe
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[AshleyW]

dear brit owners, my problems mechanically have been,
1.auto drain cocks not functioning. this can be remidied by slackening the inner boss on the inside of the drain cock cup,these msut have been over tightened during construction.
2. reverser- the u.v joint has a brass fitting inside which may give if the stainless rod from the cab is a little longer than designed,mike pavie has for kingscale a replacement insert which you can fit yourself if required,if the stainless shaft need shortening,you will need a cutting disc,something i don't have. also the grub screws are 1.00mm allen key size,which i had to buy in
3. smoke box door would not cose up snuggly, advice was to bend the hinges- worked a bit better, but not as nice a tight fit as i have experianced with other live steam locomotives and has also lead to fully damaging the hinges as the door has opened in transit due to this problem and sprained the hinges and caused paint loss.
other issues for me have been
1. no coloured seals on the pipe work, which was supposed to be there in case you don't wish to steam to preserve your warranty.
2. tender rear steps twisted
3.tender ladder bent at the top,easy to tweak back to shape
4.steam heat pipe beneath tender drawbar broken off when recieved.
5.cab side sheet (r/h) angle bracket, not fully soldered in position for whole of the length of the angle. dissapointingly,this was repaired rather than replaced as i was initially advised, to my mind a replacement should be the norm on something new, not a repair.

think that may have covered all aspects so far, hope i am the exeption

[AshleyW]

i have steamed my brit at least 3 times on the rolling road, i have had steam raised in about 7 minutes and initially had to give the wheels a spin to get her moving, in forward she can re start on the throttle without any nudge on the wheels. the first two steams i only got 20-25 mins from the gas tank regardless of if in steam allready,the last steam i'd run out of parasene mix so used plain butane from poundland and got over 35 mins and had to stop operating before i'd finished the gas up.on the first couple of steamings i have had to open the regulator more than 180 degrees (for those considering radio) but once running and on third steam up,got away with a 1/4 to 1/3rd for moderate speeds. despite the drain cocks (which apparently are aonly supposed to work when regulator is shut an loco pushed along) you do get a lot of primed steam on your lovely loco,so best keep a rag over the smoke box area or maybe make an arrestor to put over the blast pipe when starting up. the chuff is nice and deep and the water pump works fine, i do notice when pumping water in,the loco speed drops a little and when running slow,you may even need to open the regulator to compensate.running at slow speed, i have had the water supply shut off far more than open and guess you may only need it open perhaps 1 in 4 laps of a good sized layout.when finished i find baby wipes the ideal item for wiping off oil and cleaning at the same time. NOTE after my last steam up which was in my basement, my carbon monoxide alarm sounded maybe an hour after use, suspect this was due to left over butane weeping out- so don't get a shock if it happens to you.

[454]

First impressions & experiences upon receipt. Loco 002 Chapter 1.

My Brit No 002 was personally collected just a few days before I had a cataract operation and under doctor's orders I was not allowed to lift anything over 25 pounds in weight nor look down for 2 weeks. This not only caused a lull in G3 modelling but was timely as recovery was almost complete as I attended Warley 2012 to assist with Blackgang. The relaying of my track circuit to minimum radius of 12 feet had already commenced but doctor's orders stated that gardening was banned for 4 weeks. Sadly that includes track laying in the garden.

What has this got to do with receiving a Brit? Well it is heavy, very heavy. The weight (17 Kg) gives a naive impression of robustness. Curiously it has a fragility which is not usually seen in other models in the model engineering sense. There are delicate bits that are easily broken and can fall off. Finding hand holds and lifting loco without tender is a challenge. Details like vac pipes etc are solid & rigid lacking flexibility and easily broken off. The scale size dummy pipes  on the tender prove this as one had already fallen off in transit. Discovered in unpacking. A simple tut tut to myself and thinking that when the tender is coupled to the loco it cannot be seen anyway, so will live with that one.

So the big day came and now I can lift over 25 pounds. In the meantime I had jigged up a yard of track or two to exact 12 feet radius with gauge widened Cliff Barker track. The minimum specified in the literature. It could be placed on the track quite easily with a little coaxing of the wheels fore & aft to ensure flanges were seated correctly on railhead. The tender was attached with drawbar pin in both settings, close coupled and increased spacing to seek comparison. Close coupling looks better, but the increased space setting is handy to ease reach to the controls.

With the regulator open the Brit pushed easily forward and all wheels turned so that was a relief. This suggest to me that my powerful R/C battery Avonside 0-4-0 T will be more than capable of rescuing it when the Brit fails out on the track.

However in both close coupled and increased spacing settings the under cab pony truck lifted off the track off the inside rail but was still on the track on the outer rail. Pushing the loco forward again all wheels were neatly on the track.
The height of the wheel from the track was as much as it would go until it was fouled by the dummy decorative copper pipework.

I do expect my model to be able to run in reverse without this happening when on minimum specified 12 feet radius.

Next issue is that of lubrication. How to turn the loco upside down to lubricate the workings without damaging the detail delicate hand railing and other protuberances. Not yet conquered the technique.

Now after hearing fellow member's experiences (off forum) my confidence in running this model has been dented.

However it does look good and will make a super showcase model. Mine was never intended to serve this role!

Watch this space (Loco 002 Chapter 2) as the temptation to light up is increasingly becoming irresistible now that this forum has been opened for the feedback.

[AshleyW]

my solution to potential danger from dragging hoses, was to fold up some wire to make a cradle, which can simply be fed through the coupler mouth on the tender and not req any mod to the original.

[Brian_Torr]

I collected my Britannia directly from Mike Pavie's during the week they arrived from China. It sounds like a few have been transit damaged so perhaps that was a wise move. I steamed my loco as soon as I arrived home with it. Initial problem was that it took a long time to raise steam, but as the gauge didn't work, I couldn't tell what pressure I was running at. Jon Spalding sent me a new gauge straight away, and put me in touch with Mike Pavie for tips on getting steam up quicker, and he was very helpful. So after using hot(ish) water and sealing the gas jet with loctite pipe sealant, time to 75psi is about 6 minutes which I guess is ok. I also freed up the draincocks, as I understand all the engines were shipped with them locked down. I think I can improve with further gas jet positioning which I'll try next. As discussed with some of you, to R/C the regulator will in my view need a winch servo. Think I'll R/C the whistle but not bother with the reverser, which is really stiff on my model, but at least the engine will be stopped to be put in reverse, whereas I'd like the whistle blown whilst moving!

[454]

Although I have not steamed my loco yet the radio control installation is advancing 

For the regulator a winch servo is on order with a servo speed regulator module to programme the rate at which the regulator will be operated. In the meantime I have installed a standard servo for form & fit application purposes.

The whistle I have been told is a bit watery 

Question is Brian does it chime like a Brit ?

My plan is to operate a separate channel from the receiver to a whistle module set up for a more Brit like chime whistle  through a loudspeaker to give a good volume. Will operate with no loss of steam while running of course. If its possible in OO on a Hornby Brit with DCC then using it on our locos should be easy.

Considering a DC Mylocosound sound module.

It is my hope that in the next couple of weeks I will be posting Chapter 2 of my experiences of this model loco on my rolling road.

Do need to hang a heavy train behind it to really put it through its paces though on a track that can take it. It's one reason the rest of my modelling time is consumed building Flexikit wagons and not outside in the rain track laying.

There is a hope that at sometime in the new year we Brit owners may be able to have a "Brit Only GTG" at an established track to prove the performance of our "identical" models.

Let this dialogue continue and expand to understand the strengths & weaknesses of this model, plus hints & tips on how to service it and make it run well for longer.

Dave
454 

[Brian_Torr]

Dave. I'll be honest and say I can't recall exactly what a Brit whistle should sound like and haven't checked out you-tube where I'm sure I can hear it. But I can say that when the model is up to pressure, and after the first 'clearing' of condensate from the whistle, it is very good (my opinion) and LOUD plus you get a nice extra puff of steam from the whistle.

My main track circuit is all at 12' minimum radius now, just have some ballasting to do. Hopefully before this year is out I'll post a you-tube of my Brit running and the whistle. There will be a lot of manhandling though as I chase after it adjusting the regulator for my gradients!

PS - There are some blogs which talk about DX6i receivers cutting out when used with Turnigy servo speed regulators, i.e. when voltage falls below a certain level. Mines a DX6 but would expect same, so better be careful to get set up just right. Dave - where did you order your speed reg from as I can't find any in stock anywhere?

[454]

Brian,
The Brit whistle (12"to foot) is a multi-note chime whistle with quite a high pitch. Can't tell you the musical notes though as I am clueless musically. It is not deep throated like the American chime. Nor is it a single note shrill like A3 or GWR or a deep booming Stanier. Like an A4 but subtly different. Even the A4's had different chimes. So is a very characteristic sound which with the best intention in the world do not believe for one moment that it can be reproduced in model form. I will swallow humble pie if I'm wrong. Which is why I prefer to mimic it synthetically but without a puff of steam.

The Turnigy servo speed regulator may cut out with a DX6i, but I have a spare Saturn set.
My naive hope is that because the batteries will not be used for traction but just for servos, receiver & sound card that the voltage will remain above limits for longer. But it will be something that will be monitored nevertheless.

Speed reg ordered from Rapid Rc and have been notified as already despatched. So may be able to test rig it before install.

[AllWight]

Hi

Whistles are in some cases a regional thing especially on the BR Standards locos such as Britania.
The MHR Std5 73096 was and still is fitted with a Gresley Chime, synonymous with the A4s.
Most BR standards engines did all have the same whistles. Different regions would at a whim change the whistle for a local popular choice. 41312 Ivatt class 2 an ex LMS design has the LMS hooter.
If you want the correct sounding whistle you would be better off getting a sound card of a recording of the actual whistle. Massoth do DCC sound cards and other accessories. The models own whistle will never recreate the same tone and depth as the real full size steam whistle. That said though the Kingscale Brit is a very nice looking machine and I think it has enough presence of grandeur and size to overcome the lacking of mass that the full size counterpart possesses.

Mark

[Moonraker]

A simple option, which doesn;t need DCC, is to use one of my MyLocoSound soundcards to reproduce the whistle connecting it to a 9 volt battery, servo switch and 8 ohm speaker. You can set the tone (with a screwdriver) to match the prototype.

I am away on Christmas holidays in Sydney right now but will post a sound sample when I get back to the office late this week.

Regards
Peter
MyLocoSound

[454]

Bingo! This is the exact solution that I was pursuing, thanks Peter we will look forward to hearing the sound sample.

Dave
454

[Moonraker]

Dave,

I have put up an MP3 file at http://www.mylocosound.com/sounds/britannia.mp3.

Note that the whistle is adjustable in style (plain or chime), tone and volume. Using radio control, you can play whatever tunes you want on the whistle. If the loco is not radio controlled then it is possible to use bits from a wireless door chime from your local hardware store as described at http://www.mylocosound.com/doorchime.html

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocosound

[454]

Thanks Peter.

BTW I would never have thought of adapting a door chime unit.

Cheers

Dave
454

[AshleyW]

just had a thought today, i remember some early archangel 16mm live steamers being radio controlled via a u.v shaft from the tender. given there is a 90 degree plate with hole in (coal plate/drawbar pin access) could it be possible to make a bracket to go onto that and if a rod can be made to go straight onto the servo cog linked to the regulator spindle would this give more travel than via arm and linkage from cab floor?