The G3 Kingscale Britannia

[454]

Hi Ashley
My plan is to use a winch servo on the regulator set at an angle on a clip on bracket which secures to the cab floor.
The angle allows the manual reverser tool to be used without fouling.
No drilling required. The servo is awaited hopefully in the next week.
As the regulator needs to be opened by more than 360 deg on occasion the use of a multi turn servo is essential.
Normally the servos are fast acting so will be using an inline servo speed regulator.
Intention is to allow regulator to be opened slowly even by a lead footer driver but in emergency closure will be fast acting.
Not planning any control on reverser until confident loco will perform on my circuit effectively.

Regards
Dave
454

[Brian_Torr]

Just to let you know that, as the sun came out today and I was working from home, I took an extended lunch and tested my Brit out on the track under radio control. Using the HitecHS785HB winch servo with arm directly hooked over the regulator handle, but with nothing bolted into place, I set the engine off on its scale mile journey around the track which includes a 1:37 climb, and a 1:45 downhill. Without a speed regulator, my DX6 handset was pretty sensitive but manageable. It needed more than 360 degrees at times, especially as the Brit seems to want quite a lot to get it off the mark, then you can throttle back. I was correctly concerned with the consequences of shutting off the regulator too much, which would only need a twitch on the stick. And I found out - fortunately as nothing was bolted in, the arm just sprung back and disconnected with the regulator, which was left shut tight. I need to think of a better way of getting it to stop without over tightening. Also rather unfortunately, I found out what happens when the arm disconnects with the regulator when open 360 degrees. Answer - virtual heart attack as the Brit shoots down the 1:45 at an incredible speed - and held the curves until I could catch it on the uphill. Phew!

I'll try to get some Youtube footage at the weekend (not repeating the last bit though!)

[454]

Oh Brian my hero. What a brave chap you are.

Seems like some positive location is required to fully engage the regulator onto the servo arm.
On my installation will be trying a short length of brass tube sliding fit over the regulator handle.

In respect of regulator opening on your "maiden voyage Youtube" the regulator seemed to be opened with an angle that seemed to be well less than 180 degrees, after a slight pause the loco chuffed away quite sedately. 

The servo that we both were intending to use i.e. Hitec HS785HB for me will now be applied to a non locomotive application. An alternative use has been found.

The bracketry in my design has been revamped and a GWS S125 1T 360 degree servo is fitted now. This on my servo tester does 1.5 turns but since setting it up yesterday afternoon not yet tried it on the Spectrum radio.

Am currently working on the bracket to fit a 12 turn servo for the reverser. Surprisingly it seems that with careful selection of available servos the Regulator, reverser & whistle should be achievable.

Sadly had an email from my Ebay supplier in HK that the servo had been despatched Monday but that due to security scanning at HK airport he could not give me a realistic estimate of when I would receive it.  Was hoping to get everything sorted to bring along to AGM for display. There still could be time as I can set it up with the 1T servo for form & fit. For the whistle will be using a subminiature servo due to remaining space considerations with a push rod to the valve lever. The clearances are very tight as the regulator servo arm passes very close to this.

Guess when I get brave enough to do the first live run on my circuit, might need a paramedic and a defib kit on standby.

Looking forward to the Youtube clip. Go on put the athletic bit on you could earn a fortune on an advertising "click count".

Dave

[MikeWilliams]

Great to hear that somebody has actually run a Brit, and successfully, and in January!  Well done.

I don't know what restrictions there are on the hall hire at the AGM, but would running one on a rolling road be out of the question?

Mike

[454]

Mike if I get my Brit R/C sorted in the way I would like then it is my intention to put mine on display. If not then my Panda will travel light. If others bring theirs then we can compare notes.

[454]

Still not yet steamed my Brit.

However have been very busy designing a plug & play R/C control module for the Brit and now it is in the final pre-steamtested configuration. This is at the expense of finishing my Flexi TTTruck rake which came to a grinding halt over the festive season. The Brit mods took over and this is what emerged.

Channel 1 is the regulator on a 1 turn i.e. 360 degree sail winch servo. Spring removed from Tx to allow RHS stick movement without self centring.

Channel 2 is the reverser on a 12 turn sail winch servo. This uses the throttle channel on the non sprung LHS of Tx.
Full back on stick is reverse. Centre stick is mid gear. Forward stick is forward gear. So -6, 0, +6 turns. Unfortunately probably another couple of turns are needed to achieve full extremity but as it is I do not believe the servo will drive to the end stop and fail the assembly either on loco or control rig. So this mechanical limitation could be a safety feature to prevent gear wear and premature failure. Sadly it has not been steam tested yet!

Channel 3 is the whistle servo on a micro servo. This uses the "gear" switch on the Tx switched channel.

The whole assembly can be swung into the cab and slotted in place with a bit of careful alignment with the rear of the cab floor edge. Once placed there the aluminium clamps secure the assembly in situ. No drilling or Brit physical modifications have been required to do this.

The Rx, switch & battery box are contained in an equipment tray in the tender bent up to shape from an old biscuit tin. Not covered it with a coal load yet. The servo leads are led out through the front LHS tender spectacle plate winder opening direct into cab.

Further modifications are the repositioning of the pressure gauge to prevent repetition of the previously reported failures of this component part.

Aluminium foil backed with ceramic fibre will be added to the servo body on the reverser servo to attenuate the radiant heat from the hot firebox.

All that is left to do now is steam test it, but that is not likely until the weather improves and I find somewhere to give it a run.

Because of the ease of set up (hopefully). The Brit can be run manually to assess it's handling & character. Then have the R/C module fitted for the final handling test with full control.

In order to set up the manual to R/C control. The tender needs to be separated from the loco. Then re-united after the module is in situ. Not clear yet whether or not the close tender coupling will be suitable. The operation of the regulator can be achieved with the cab roof shutter closed as there is adequate clearance for the swing of the regulator servo horn.

The attached picture should give an idea what a cab full of servos looks like prior to "plugging in".
It is amazing how it all fits. The water gauge, pressure gauge and fire window are all visible.

Well there it is chaps, just waiting to have a laugh when it all turns pear shaped when it gets hot on the track.

Dave
 

[454]

Now for the photo of the servo control assembly.

[454]

The next pic is of the equipment tray which for R/C purposes replaces the provided removable coal load block of the original equipment.

Note it retains the extraction feature so that the tray may be pulled out to gain access to manual water pump & gas tank.

The tray was bent up & soldered from the tin of an old biscuit tin lid to a card board pattern from a corn flake packet.

Hope I can get back to my Flexikits now.

Dave

[DanDe]

Collected my Britannia from Silver Crest Models last week. Previously went there interested in the A4 to start with but went away impressed by the scale of G3.

The model itself when unpacked (very carefully) had the 3 hoses missing so parts requested and will be sent soon. The Britannia is surprisingly well detailed requiring careful handling not to damage the mainly cosmetic parts, particularly underneath and front/rear of the loco and tender. Don't intend to steam for now - will be for display only for which it is ideal. I can imagine handling the model for steaming being a challenge due to overall robustness. Perhaps there could have been a version somewhat less fragile for those definitely intending to run the locomotive.

Not surprised of the reports regarding steaming the loco. and the various teething probs. It's a big ask technically to expect experience based on the prototype to transfer seamlessly to the batch production, and this is apart from running/bedding in issues. Hope the forum and feedback will sort issues on this relative new model.

My local steam model club lost their excellent facility in Peterborough a while ago and are still looking for somewhere to start again.

[454]

DanDe,

Welcome to the forum, to G3 & to Brit ownership. Hope you pluck up courage to bring your Brit along to a garden get together this year.

What rolling stock would you have in mind to hang behind it should one day you decide to oil her up and light her fire?

Sadly my Brit will be doing what most Brits did in their twilight years and that is pulling coal wagons and other freight.
At least it will give her something to work on.

Perhaps the G3 meeting in Bigglewade on the 23rd Feb. might interest you, it's a great opportunity to come & see G3 examples of what other members are getting up to with their modelling etc. Best of all have a chat & a good day out.

Dave

[DanDe]

Dave,

Thank for your reply and interest.

Not thought that far ahead to be honest w.r.t. what to put behind a Brit. If Silver Crest move into well detailed rolling stock for G3 (think that might be coaches?)- might give that a consideration. Have a preference for freight to be honest - more interesting and varied, and as you say Brits were used for freight in late life. There's a Brit.setting off with freight from Huddersfield Station in the 1960's if you search internet/YouTube(?)

Looking ahead would prefer the warmer months to attend a G3 event if it is outside - nearest G£ event to me at Peterborough I think is Amptil, Beds. Need to check my diary nearer the time.

Fascinated that it seems possible, from the various Forum entries, that radio control, can be installed to the current controls on a Finescale Britannia.

Dan.

[454]

Dan
If you are interested in installing radio control my Brit will be on display at Biggleswade & I will be demonstrating how to fit radio control into the loco without defacing the loco by drilling holes etc. All will be revealed. As far as Ampthill is concerned it is one of the premier well established GTG's and is extremely popular. You will be well impressed.

Your mention about rolling stock and coaches, it is tantalising that Silver Crest/Kingscale are producing excellent gauge 1 coaches of type BR Mk1 and no vision on the horizon of any gauge 3 BR Mk1 types yet. I have not seen any kits available yet from anybody. The prospect of scratch building some BR Mk1's is for me quite daunting.

Dave

[MikeWilliams]

Welcome Dan and congratulations on finding the best modelling scale there is!

I really would recommend Biggleswade in ten days because everyone who does anything in Gauge 3 will be there - well, almost!  A garden GTG such as Ampthill is great but a quite different thing.  And, although its still winter, the Biggleswade hall is dry and  heated with plenty of tea on tap.  Its a very friendly event too.

You are dead right about BR MK1s.  Kingscale and our own member from Bristol have both talked about producing models of these, so until they either get far enough to market them, or annonce that they won't, I can't see anyone else even thinking about doing it.

Mike

[AshleyW]

latest steam up- my last steam up was done using poundland cigarette lighter butane (as wilkos are out of their moderately priced parasene £2.79) the tender tank will i guess take around 80% of one of these canisters and after such a fill,the canister pressure is probably so low,you'd not want to use it again. but in comparison, it's about the same as buying the large canisters, but only butane,which i guess is not as hot at the mix and of course the mix is the suggested item in the instructions.
as usual i  have had steam raised in about 7 mins,enough to get her running that is- i'm not sure on the accuracy of the gauge but i've not yet run with her blowing off (and maybe that's needed if you want the whistle to sound and not be a splodgy gurgle). i was running for the purpose of a demonstration to a friend, well suprisingly we ran for 55 mins,after steam up ! the gas was still actually lit in the firebox,but  losing pressure,so i turned her off,previous runs had delivered around 25-35 mins running.
also of note,perhaps moreso to those considering radio, i found still the maximum i needed on the regulator was 180 degrees turn,any more (at the non blowing off pressure) did not deliver any extra speed,so i assume that unless you are lucky enough to have a dozen coaches that a servo capable of one rotation will be sufficient (will report back after a radio run) and sensible speeds will hopefully be handled within this power range.
with reagrds to regulator opening,the initial opening and waiting for action,may tempt more throttle,if you listen, you can hear the steam going down the main steam pipe to the valve chest,and with such a long boiler,that needs a moment to actuate movement,once you have it at the ready and the wheels are turning, i have had a steady pace at around 90 degrees on the regulator.
glad to see another buyer-wonder how many are left, it'd also be good to find out,perhaps from kingscale or from a mention in the mag-how many of the 50 plus prototypes are intended to be steaming and how many have purchased purely for a showcase model, so we have an idea of how many we can expect to see at get togethers .
hope we have a few more sunny days like yesterday.

[DanDe]

Thank you guys who helped out with various queries I had at the Bigglewade GTG, mostly on the Britannia I purchased a while ago. This is the first Gauge 3 event I have been to and the amount of support for kits/RTR covering Gauge 3 needs was quite impressive. i was particularly taken up by some of the points/double slip trackwork available which looks very realistic at Gauge 3 scale. As luck would have it near to me at Peterborough the Britannia locomotive was in residence at the Nene Valley Railway at the weekend. Unfortunately it came off the track on Saturday at Yarwell junction so when we went on Sunday it was out of service. Fortunately it was re-railed late Sunday. Went down today (Monday) and it was running up and down the track with a brake van so was able to get photo's/video. The Britannia leaves NVR on Friday and we were told will depart North from Peterborough Station around 9am or thereabouts.