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Under Starters Orders!

Started by John Candy, Apr 10 2013 10:30

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John Candy

Tomorrow will see the first delivery of materials for commencement of line construction.
500 red engineering bricks, 144 concrete blocks, 150ft of tanalised 4x2 plus vast quantities of cement, sand and aggregate.

Assuming you have not already got bored and "dropped off", you will have spotted that there is no "decking" material.
I am still in two minds as to what to use.
Options currently under consideration are 18mm marine ply (at around 65GBP for an 8ftx4ft sheet) or recycled plastic 18mm planks.
The same area of plastic planking (supplied only in 140mm x 3000mm strips) as provided by the 8x4 ply sheet would cost 123+GBP.

I doubt I shall want the decking to last more than 15 years (I shall be 80...assuming I last that long!) and suspect marine ply would "see me out".
On the other hand, the ply will still require initial sealing with (?epoxy) sealant and no doubt regular attention. Whether or not to cover with roofing felt is another question.

Given the maintenance requirements of ply, the plastic option has its attractions BUT the inability to buy sheets (only offered in strips) is a disadvantage.

The line is to be constructed on two levels, with an "out-and-back" single track high level line from a three platform terminus giving a route of  around 350ft with two intermediate stations (both junctions). The low level line will be a double track circuit (a route of 200+ft) with connections to the high level line in both directions (so that trains can leave the terminus, join the low level line in either direction at one of the junction stations, do a few circuits of the main line, then climb back to the high level and run in to the terminus).

God only knows how long it will take to construct (probably two years if the weather is reasonable) and there are still quite a lot of design details to work out.
The minimum running line radius is to be 20ft (with turnouts of same radius) so it will be suitable for "express" running.

Comments, thoughts, suggestions welcomed!
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

cabbage

I am going to use two parallel 8x1 sawn treated timbers for my "top" with green cap roofing felt as the final layer and "hockey stick" edging to prettify the join between the two! This too should last me until I am 80....

regards

ralph

492

Having had marine ply fail in the past, I now use cement board. This is called Hardibacker 500 (1200cmx800cmx12mm) This is great stuff, lasts for ever, can't rot, doesn't warp, and can be cut with an angle grinder with hard thin blade. Get someone to hold vacuum nozzle near cutting blade to collect dust as you cut.

I pay about £11 for each sheet, inc VAT and delivery.

Let me know if you need further info.

Robert. 492

John Candy

Ralph and Robert,

Thank you for both suggestions which sound to be more durable than marine ply.

The cement board I have not come across before and sounds ideal for large flat areas such as stations.
The 8x1 planks may well be the answer to the running lines between stations.

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

MikeWilliams

My last outdooe layout was 20 years ago, so I'm no expert here!

However, if you want 8 x 1 timber scaffold boards may be a good bet.  I used them for footboards on a (real) railway carriage 15 years ago and they as good as new.  They are also "stress relieved".

Mike

Traininvain

A Gauge 1 friend who lives on the North Yorkshire coast uses HardieBacker 12mm cement board for his trackbed laid across 2 4 x 1 timbers fixed vertically either side of 4 x 4 wooden posts. No problems in 4 years of use.

Ian

blagdon

John, I have used both sawn and finished 1'' timber of various widths, coated with lashings of creosote substitute (would be better still if could get hold of the real thing!), covered with mineralised felt. Make sure felt covers the exposed edges.

So far so good.

Ian the Gauge '3' Pirate

Kalinowski

John,

My outdoor circuit has been down for nearly 20 years now. The main station area and much of the curves are made from half inch marine ply covered with thin roofing felt. Thick felt is no good because it ruptures during hot weather and the tar  tends to soften Ugh!!.  The station area is as good as new Provided you cover it during the winter months. I use transparent plastic corrugated sheet from Home base.

The straight part is built using a ladder, yes an wooden old ladder, with a thin sheet of perforated aluminium sheet and ballasted with granite chips. No wear after 20 years. 

I have just rebuilt some curves using pressure treated decking wood, the rain runs off through the grooves and is not covered at all. The decking is screwed to 2 and quarter inch by 1 inch longerons about 4 feet long.

A lot depends upon if you have trees, bushes etc. nearby as leaves and grott can cause problems with outdoor track, also pigeon poop and squirrel damage.

All the above is 2 foot 6 inches above ground using 4 x 2 wooden posts buried in concrete feet with a cross piece to take the longerons. Post are circa 4 feet apart. This method of construction does not look HEAVY and is more pleasing than using bricks - need to please the boss as the garden is shared !!!

Regs PK

John Candy


Five days now since work started on preparatory groundwork for my new line.
Time so far spent (with help from brother-in-law) in cutting down and burning branches, shrubs and other vegetation and moving obstacles (including large lumps of rock, tree roots and a compost heap......complete with two hibernating hedgehogs!).
Now able to walk all but a couple of yards of the trackbed of both high and low level lines.

It has now become obvious that the route is far more undulating than I had thought.
Intention had been to keep the (low level) double track circuit almost level but a 29 inch difference in ground level between the highest and lowest parts of the route means there will have to be gradients. I have so far been able to estimate that a gradient of 1 in 80 will probably be the most severe and that on a straight(ish) section. How much of a challenge will this be to live steam and battery-electric locos?

Started on some levelling yesterday but it will be a few days before any concrete is poured (assuming the weather stays fine).

Had been my intention to use pneumatic point controls but "EasyAir" (stocked by Brandbright) has gone out of business and there appears to be only "Sunset Valley" making a similar system but with no UK distributor.
Alternative would appear to be electric (?LGB) point motors.
Anyone have experience of either pneumatic or electric control in the garden (and how it stands up to English weather)?

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

cabbage

1 in 25 is as steep as I would take one of my locos -you should be fine with 1 in 80 for a live steamer. I use an electric system for pulling my points and signals, it is not a "standard" method but it does work very well.

http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/display.html

A 10cm length develops 200g of pull and "shrinks" by 5%. Crimp the connectors at the ends as the heat from a soldering iron destroys the crystal structure. You have to use a 200g tension spring at the other end to pull the length back to size as it cools. I get mine from eBay! Look under "Memory wire" and Muscle wire".

regards

ralph

454

Electric Point motors

LGB EPL type have been used by myself for lost count of the number of years.
They are reliable subject to annual maintenance. Simple to clean out.
Ants, spiders, grit & other detritus can be cleaned out by unscrewing the plastic cover.
They are designed like most LGB kit to be left outdoors. A squirt of WD40 helps. There is an accessory switch which can be clipped on.

The operation is using AC and can be integrated into quite complicated interlocking by the careful
use of diodes. The units only use one half of the AC waveform. The AC waveform rectified by a diode forward biased or reverse biased will determine the direction of operation of the point motor. Which incidentally may be used for signal operation also.

Only got experience of LGB EPL point motors on LGB track. I have not applied them to Gauge 3 track
but this should not as I see it be an issue. They should be able to be adapted quite easily.

Hope this helps

Dave
454


John Candy

Ralph,

Thank you for the interesting suggestion as to use of "memory wire" for point switching.
I had been considering this for signals but have done no research as yet, so was not aware of its tensile strength.

Using 3 volts in the garden (via a voltage regulator attached to a 12V car battery) sounds safer than using 230V mains transformers.
What sort of loads (mA) are involved when a circuit is energized?

Dave,

Thanks for the info on LGB equipment which sounds virtually "bomb proof".
Presumably (since AC is required) it would involve mains transformers in the garden?
As a politician would say (sitting on the fence), "I am ruling nothing out and nothing in" at this stage.

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Moonraker

John,

I used 11 LGB point motors on my layout and only two were still working after 5 years. The rest had succumbed to internal rust and that's in the dryest state of the dryest continent. So I agree that annual maintenance is a good idea. All I did was to give them a squirt of WD40 now and again.

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound
Peter Lucas

454

John

Yes does require a source of AC with the following considerations & it does not necessarily mean plugged in mains voltages:-

Most model railway sources of AC are from a transformer yes.

This source of transformer can be one of 3 forms.

1) A conventional 16 volt AC transformer located in the main building i.e. house or garage. The circuit requires only the positive OR the negative part of the cycle for operation so strictly speaking they could be operated from positive or negative DC source. Consultation of how LGB EPL point motors operate is essential. The ones I am talking about are not to be confused with the slam bang solenoid kind usually controlled by capacitance discharge.
The LGB EPL motor is a rotary solenoid which rotates in the direction of input polarity to make the movement of the mechanical control function.

2) Batteries if you like.

3) DCC using decoders & a two wire linked daisy chain with the DCC high frequency AC command signal flowing through it. LGB MTS, Massoth etc. The mains plugged in box being in the house/garage. The system working via a computer interface with a laptop. Mimic track diagram on the screen.
OK so this might be the "big bucks" solution.

Hope this inspires

Dave
454




cabbage

I will confess that I have never measured the amount of current! But the two 6 Volt SLA of 4.5Ah rating need charging about once every 3 months (which takes about 90 minutes). Unless your points are really stiff then I don't think that the tensile strength of the wire is that important. If you can move the blades from one side to another using a 200 gramme kitchen weight then it will work(!)

regards

ralph