Looking for a Deisel Electric...

[cabbage]

I am one of those people who has to know everything about my model before I even begin to put Mouse to CAD... I am at least two Electric locos and one Diesel Mechanical loco away from starting this (say 5 years!!!) However I think that I should start planning now. The engine, the alternator, the power rectification and PWAM / RC system is all worked out -and ready to shop. All this should come as no surprise to members of the committee.

I have this "feeling" that the loco that fits the bill here -is a Class 40.

Anyone any other suggestions?

regards

ralph

[John Candy]

A 'conventional' loco......what happened to obscure and weird?!

If you want a 1CO-CO1 then how about the Southern's Bulleid locos?
The power trucks on these were the basis for the BR 1CO-CO1 classes (40/44/45/46) and they had a nice clean body profile. After a stint on the SR, they were sent to the LMR (including use on the named Anglo-Scottish expresses) but as a non-standard class of just three, were withdrawn when the BR type 4 locos appeared on the LMR in large numbers.

I am surprised you haven't built a 'Leader' (plenty of space for a large boiler) or have you....the Cabbage Patch site seems to be 'down' at present?

Regards,
John.

[cabbage]

The reason I am seriously thinking about a Class 40 is the fact that as a boy I got to spend Saturday Mornings with my Father at the Tech Centre, London Road, Derby. They had a Class 40 there that was used for the rolling chassis of their "Design Experiments"...

It is this loco that I intend to build.

I did examine the Bulleid -but rejected it on the principle that it was stylistically too close to the GWR 18000. (This is also on the "To Build" list). I am however very closely examining the CIE "CC-1" design -which is compact enough to take the curves of my layout.

The last time I saw it being prepared, it had a Class 93 nose on it with the typical pink and yellow stripes of "smear paint" applied to it for high speed air flow tests.

But do please keep the suggestions coming!!!

regards

ralph

[Moonraker]

As you would be aware, a number of people around the world have built live diesel locos; all using model aircraft engines and various generating/cooling configurations. Most of them worked-all of them sounded terrible.

Your big challenge, which nobody has achieved, is to make it sound like a Class 40.

Peter

[cabbage]

Moonraker,

I admit that the sound of it would be a problem... Being deaf I have to have 3 feet square speakers for my record player. However I will try!

John,

The site seems fine from where I am in the EU?

regards

ralph

[John Candy]

Ralph,

Your site is OK now...around 7am it was offline....the graphic was missing from your messages and when I tried to connect to the site it could not be found.

There are are diesel/oil burning conversions available for the glow-plug aero motors but the basic problem is engine speed.
I understand that the sound is improved by a special muffler for the diesel conversion ...I seem to recall that it cost around 300USD (that's just the muffler) when I was investigating the possibilities about 4 years ago.

Regards,
John.

[cabbage]

That would be 07:00am BST? I do know that the backup of the server finishes at 09:00 am MEZ -so you could have been a little unlucky... The following diagram shows the design for the coolant system -the precise specifications and dimensions are to be found in an as yet unfinished document, (HINT!)



I have chosen to use a Marine rather than an Aero engine as the torque curve is flatter. The std design for a tuned 2 stroke is shown below. But what might be interesting is to have a bass loudspeaker resonator chamber coupled to the output exhaust. However previous attempts at locomotive sound effects have not been well received by my wife...



For the peak point I have calculated for my Diesel Mechanical -that Lambda is 4cm.

regards

ralph

[Peaky 556]

As you would be aware, a number of people around the world have built live diesel locos; all using model aircraft engines and various generating/cooling configurations. Most of them worked-all of them sounded terrible.

Your big challenge, which nobody has achieved, is to make it sound like a Class 40.

Peter

How terrible Peter?  Explanations needed!  After all a 12 cylinder Sulzer at 750 rpm has the same firing frequency as a single cylinder 4-stroke at 9000 rpm, or a twin at 4500 rpm etc.  Is it because Cabbage and many others run theirs at stupendous revs?  I want to make one sound unobtrusive!!! ...and a bit realistic??
Regards,
Tim

[454]

Tim
Electric motors and a sound card is the solution for a model diesel.

Then it will sound like whatever you want it to be, assuming you can get the sound files of course.

You can even get a smoke generator with a fan on it to jet the smoke out in a semi-realistic plume.

Can't help thinking it will sound like a lawnmower or a chainsaw otherwise.

Hope you don't think I'm being negative.

Cheers
Dave

[cabbage]

Well actually there is a UTube of the 4.6cc Marine Diesel that I use in operation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asnLCNDAB2E

It is no more louder than "Henry" the vacuum cleaner and certainly quieter than the 4 stroke lawnmower that I use. Stall speed for the Torque convertor is around 2,500 RPM and the Marine engine tops out at 4,500 RPM max. It is certainly slower sounding than the Class 40 -but to get it into that sort of frequencies Lamda would have to be about 137cm!!! Alternatively I could connect a whistle to the exhaust stack.....

regards

ralph

[blagdon]

Project looking good Ralph! Looking forward to the finished loco.

Also, now you have a YouTube channel, any chance of some vidoes of some of your electrics?

Ian the Gauge '3' Pirate

[Peaky 556]

I'm aiming to try out the glo 4-stroke with low revs now, say 4500, and feeding the exhaust into a large absorbtive/reactive chamber.  From car tuning days I also know that induction roar is a significant contributor, so piping that into an inlet plenum is on the cards.  I'm also trying to prevent myself thinking about a twin engined one, with little success!  Say the two single engines were geared together 180 deg out of phase...the uneven exhaust beat might add a little character maybe....
Regards,
Tim

[cabbage]

Interesting!

Being a cheapskate I only ever contemplated a single engine. However it should be possible to use a double ended electric motor as a dynamo (such as an RE 850) and mount an engine at either end? The advantage would be that you could use the dynamo as starter motor. Induction "roar", (or as I prefer to call it Carburettor Slurp), I don't think is going to be a problem compared with the silencer noise. I think that your main problem is going to be cooling. I opted for a liquid cooled system for reasons of space and economy -yes the pumps are noisy but the problems of ducting air across cooling fins are far simpler (it is a CPU cooler!).

The coolant never gets hotter than 45C and I use 500cc of coolant for a 0.46cu engine. Idle is around 2,000 RPM and flat out is around 4,500 RPM. I got my engine from here:

http://www.justengines.co.uk/index.html

They are very nice people and were more than willing to help out with queries and suggestions.

regards

ralph

[Peaky 556]

Message for Dave - sorry I didn't intend to ignore you about sound cards.  All far too clever for me, but I know you're right about it giving the most realism!  However being a mech. eng I just want to build something hot, heavy, snorting and dripping with oil and fumes.  Not to mention working something like a real 'un!  I'm only a young lad of 59 so don't really remember steam so well, and the 'Peaks' that hauled me from Wellingborough to London in the 60's and 70's really were my formative railway experiences! (sad case I know, but just humour me a little... )
Still can't help thinking about a twin engined beast - in fact am looking on ebay for another engine!
See you at the AGM
Best, Tim

[454]

Hi Tim,

Only joking. Yes you are correct about an interesting engineering project making it operate like a real 'un. Fully behind you there. For me at 65 I distinctly remember the Jubes on the Midland main line on my old hunting ground around Sheffield being displaced by the Peaks. It was a bitter sweet relationship. Whilst I was fed up seeing the same Jubes week in week out it became a sense of light relief to see a fresh new diesel that would underline a fresh number in my Ian Allan combined volume. No I never wore an anorak.

As far as sound cards are concerned  I intend to shock the purists by demonstrating the sound card that I have fitted to my live steam Britannia, it won't make it run better but after all a hobby is all about having fun.

See you there

Dave