Author Topic: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)  (Read 3853 times)

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Offline Peaky 556

BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« on: Aug 31 2016 22:15 »
Having held a long time desire to build a rake of BR Mk 1 coaches, but not having the knowledge on matters like: where drawings can be found, what sort of couplings to use, and what best way to represent the bogie frames, I wonder if there is anyone out there with this knowledge who would consider joining me in a private venture to build a couple of rakes for ourselves?
Tim

Offline Doddy

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #1 on: Aug 31 2016 23:33 »
Having held a long time desire to build a rake of BR Mk 1 coaches, but not having the knowledge on matters like: where drawings can be found, what sort of couplings to use, and what best way to represent the bogie frames, I wonder if there is anyone out there with this knowledge who would consider joining me in a private venture to build a couple of rakes for ourselves?
Tim

Tim,

The best reference for drawings that I can recommend is that of the former Doug Hewson Models now run by his son Simon Hewson as The Steam Workshop. His catalogue is here - http://the-hewsons.webs.com/CAT16%202016_b.pdf

General Arrangement Drawings are available for the following MKI coaches:-
  • TSO Tourist Second Open £12
  • CK Corridor Composite £12
  • BSO Brake Second Open £12
  • BG Gangwayed Full Brake £12
  • BCK Brake Corridor Composite £12
  • SK Corridor Second £12
  • RF Restaurant First £12
  • BSK Brake Second Corridor £12
  • MKI Standard Details Pt1 £12
  • MKI Standard Details Pt2 £12
  • BR1 Riveted Bogie Drawing £12
  • BR1 Riveted Bogie Detail £12
  • MKI Underframe Drawing £12
  • Commonwealth Bogie Drawing Set £36
A whitemetal Riveted MKI bogie sideframe is already available from Wallsall Models. http://www.walsallmodelindustries.co.uk/product.php/mark_1_coach_bogie_side/?k=:::6405206
Either way, please count me in for this project.
Robert 'Doddy' Sumsion
Abingdon-on-Thames


PS: Simon 'might' be persuaded to consider an order for him to produce his laser cut coach sides in G3 scale as he already does them for 5" gauge - as per the drawings.  8)
"You don't know what you don't know"

Offline classicdelights

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #2 on: Sep 01 2016 09:51 »
Good Morning Gents

I have a rake of 7 BR Mk 1 and Bulleid coaches available.  These are the completed coaches less underframe and bogies, it is a simple job to finish them.  They are brand new in boxes and would give you a great head start in your project.

Regards

Phil

Offline Peaky 556

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #3 on: Sep 01 2016 10:07 »
Thanks Bob and Phil, I shall be looking into the options. Right now I need to attend work, but this eve is free!
Regards, Tim

Offline Peaky 556

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #4 on: Sep 01 2016 22:10 »
The approach I'd like to take is one that would result in batches of coaches that are not detailed scale models, but ones that have the right length, bulk, window shapes, door outlines, 
Thanks Bob and Phil, I shall be looking into the options. Right now I need to attend work, but this eve is free!
Regards, Tim
symbolic corridor connections etc, but would be more at the "cheap and cheerful" end of the specification scale.  If parts can be bought then so much the better, and wheels and bogie frame castings are certainly available. I have not located any oval buffers or suitable couplings yet. Bodies I would envisage laser cut from various ply thicknesses, and rooves probably removable for later additions of trim and people. Yes there might be some roofline gaps here and there, and no probably no underframe dynamos and detail, but from ten feet away and when on the move they would still be undeniably Mk1s.
I'd hazard a guess that this approach won't gel with you Bob, and also that your detailed bodies are going to be worth and arm and a leg Phil, so I am still looking for a partner in this project. Anyone tempted?
Regards, Tim

Offline Doddy

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #5 on: Sep 02 2016 01:45 »
The approach I'd like to take is one that would result in batches of coaches that are not detailed scale models, but ones that have the right length, bulk, window shapes, door outlines,  symbolic corridor connections etc, but would be more at the "cheap and cheerful" end of the specification scale.

I'd hazard a guess that this approach won't gel with you Bob

Doesn't look like it.  ???
"You don't know what you don't know"

Offline Andy B

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #6 on: Sep 02 2016 20:14 »
... coaches that are not detailed scale models, but ones that have the right length, bulk, window shapes, door outlines,  symbolic corridor connections etc, but would be more at the "cheap and cheerful" end of the specification scale. 
Tim,
You've answered one question that was in my mind, following your initial post.
On the basis you have outlined, I'm sure there is sufficient detail to be extracted from what is freely available on the web - diagrams, photos, etc - combined with a visit to a local preserved railway that uses Mk1s, armed with a tape measure!. Without meaning to sound harsh, I don't think it is worth the effort of trawling through works drawings for what you want to achieve.
Price-wise, have you done a basic costing against Curlew Coaches R-T-R products? (http://www.curlewcoaches.co.uk/)

What sort of bogies do you want - original or Commonwealth?

For couplings, I'd suggest magnets - a bigger version of the 'Magclic' - http://www.modelrailwaywagons.co.uk/

I know where there are microcards of a few original Mk1 drawings - I'm currently listing them with a view to getting them scanned. may take a while though.

Andy

Offline John Candy

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #7 on: Sep 03 2016 07:23 »
Tim,

The best source of info on all aspects of Mk.1's is the HMRS / Pendragon hardback "British Railways Mk.1 Coaches" by Keith Parkin.

Dozens of detailed scale drawings of all types (including the Metro-Cammell Pullmans and TPO stock)and hundreds of photos ... every aspect of every Mk.1 (including NPCS) is covered.

Bought a copy when it was first published .....  must have been late '80s or early 90's..... when going through a Mk.1 "phase" (now cured!).
I still have my copy, which I rate as the best book on any coaching stock I have seen.

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline Doddy

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #8 on: Sep 03 2016 08:18 »
Tim,

The best source of info on all aspects of Mk.1's is the HMRS / Pendragon hardback "British Railways Mk.1 Coaches" by Keith Parkin.

I still have my copy, which I rate as the best book on any coaching stock I have seen.

Regards,
John.

And according to Amazon a good investment as well! :-X   -  Although eBay has them listed at a third of the price.  8)

"You don't know what you don't know"

Offline John Candy

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #9 on: Sep 03 2016 09:02 »
Yikes!

I thought Abe Books had a monopoly on stratospheric prices...... but Amazon are plainly jumping on the bandwagon!

If anyone wants my (mint) copy, they can have it for 35GBP plus postage (I bought at York when it was first published...cover price 19.95GBP).

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline MikeWilliams

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #10 on: Sep 03 2016 13:46 »
Nobody seems to have taken up Phil's offer for the complete rake of Curlew coaches.

From what I've seen of them, although basic in some ways, the sides are very nice, laser cut from CAD and assuming they are accurate would make a good base for a model.  Cheapest and quickest solution may be to buy the rake and modify them to suit your requirements.

But, at least three other groups of people were working on MK1s a year or two back - surely they havn't all fallen by the wayside and given up?  And if they have, maybe some parts could be available?

Mike

Offline Peaky 556

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #11 on: Sep 03 2016 19:48 »
I've asked Tim Cray of Curlew Coaches for an indicative price for G3 Mk1s, painted in maroon which would be my preference. They feature many of the correct castings such as vents, battery boxes, dynamos, door handles, bogie sides, buffers, etc, but would be supplied with 3-link couplings, and compensation rather than springs, for simplicity. Tim added that the corridor connections would be closed when coupled up, and these would have a degree of 'give' to allow for curves.  The coaches would be supplied with interiors, painted and lined, but without numbers.  RTR price would be around £650 for one, whether SK, BSK, or whatever version takes one's fancy. Tim did indicate that a price for several could be negotiable to some extent, though remarked that his prices were "on the floor" anyway.
Tim was happy for me to summarise our conversation on the forum by the way.

Offline Peaky 556

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #12 on: Sep 07 2016 18:32 »
I may practice some CAD drawings of carriage sides next month when I am laid up after an op, but does anyone have any tips when dealing with laser cutting of thin ply?  For instance do apertures cut oversize because of the burning by the beam?  Is it feasible to cut narrow details or will they burn away?  I am thinking mainly of the glazing bars in the top parts of the windows.
Thanks, Tim

Offline Geoff Nicholls

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #13 on: Sep 07 2016 23:03 »
i was told the kerf, the slot cut by a laser beam (just like a saw) is usually 0.2mm wide from a standard CAD line. So if you're doing tabs and slots you might want to allow for that if you want everything really tight. I've never bothered making such an allowance and not had problems, except with small diameter holes, for bolts or rivets.
If you're cutting really thick material, say 9mm ply, the cut may not end up vertical. I speak from sad experience about that. But thin stuff, say,  1.6mm is fine from my experience.
As for narrow details, I had some GWR carriage beading cut in 0.5mm acrylic, including 0.75mm wide, and that was fine, but the same in the same thickness of rowmark was not so good, the material distorted a bit. I guess card, MDF or ply would also be fine down to that size.
Some of the above may depend on the laser cutting machine and its operator. I used 4D models in London, they know what they are doing, but they're not cheap.
Geoff.

Offline Andy B

Re: BR Mk 1 (that old chestnut...)
« Reply #14 on: Sep 08 2016 07:20 »
As Geoff said, it can be down to the machine / operator - so worth asking first.

I have discovered a new laser cutting service in Derby for non-metallics.
They must be pretty well on your route to/from work:
http://derbyshirelaser.co.uk/

I haven't contacted them yet (need to get a batch of etch design workout of the way first) but certainly plan to for some items I want to try out.

Andy