Author Topic: Design and Planning  (Read 2336 times)

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Offline cabbage

Design and Planning
« on: June 09, 2017, 11:15:00 AM »
When we started looking for our last house together Sheila and I had firm fixed ideals. I had a few plans for my railway in G3 dependant of the shape of the garden. The original design was for a dual track "end to end" for the high speed running of diesels and electrics. Something I still intend to complete. I am now (very slowly!) building a steam locomotive and have had to incorporate a loop for continuous steam running.

What I never found was a guide to designing and planning a G3 layout. I used the old 1949 book by Tustin as a reference. What I think we need is a series of actual layout plans (with some simple notes as to geology etc) to aid people who might be planning a layout but cannot afford to travel to an actual site.

When I started out "Mainline Thurnby" was the first I ever saw and that took a LOT of research to find!

I am more than happy for my layout plan to used as reference or comparison with others. Also it would be interesting to see what other people have done.

regards

ralph

Offline AshleyW

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2017, 12:28:12 PM »
we had parkwood part one in the magazine, there's part two and three, but they have not yet appeared.

Offline John Candy

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2017, 11:31:51 AM »
There is a lot on this forum about my project which is now in its final phase (wiring up detectors and signals, building signalling panels  and connecting the compressed air supply for point motors).

starts here : http://g3forum.org.uk/index.php/topic,1089.0.html
continues here : http://g3forum.org.uk/index.php?topic=1099.msg5922#msg5922

One thing which I regret having done is to use Cliff's tie-bars on the turnouts.......several have already needed to be resoldered. The stress of switching against the resistance of the blades fractures the joints which have a relatively small area of contact...if doing again, I would do as I have done with the Code 330 turnouts I built (Tenmille / GRS-type rail) and use pivots. See : http://www.g3madesimple.org.uk/code330turnouts.pdf

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline cabbage

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2017, 08:29:37 PM »
What I mean are drawings of layouts. I have drawn my own and park side. Wen I started out I did not know what was a radius for a curve and to be honest the only source of information I had at that time was the eight foot radius of the GRS points!

What I am suggesting is a catalogue of layout plans that others can look at when they are thinking of building their own layouts. After all knowing  what will not work in your situation is half the battle. My layout is designed for one person to use with additions to help me.  My signalling is based on a 1900's methodology and the points are operated by stall motors. Everything will be electrical mechanical with four colour aspect signals. I have chosen this because I believe this suits my layout better. From my background of computer design and installation I have used techniques from it that might benefit others. JRFC seems to use a pneumatic system. It would be interesting to know why he chose this and how he has applied this.

Regards

Ralph

Offline Peaky 556

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2017, 09:40:35 PM »
Ralph, following your posting I began to search my book collection for any advice on design features for an outdoor layout.  I've looked through three garden railway manuals and to be honest they are pretty hopeless at anything other than very high level considerations, such as how intrusive could it be to the neighbours view, or whether the wife can get to the clothes line and will the track cope with being walked upon!  Then there are chapters on more practicalities such as raised baseboards and gravel footings etc.
I did wonder if you meant design considerations from the operator's perspective.  How interesting will it be to operate? What should be provided for a sidings arrangement if one likes shunting trucks? What should a station layout be like, such as fast lines, platform faces and run-around loops?  Should the whole layout be in view or will my locos be reliable enough to continue out of view and then pop out from behind the shed?  What curve radii are best for my scale and my type of engine and stock? What are sensible gradients, especially if the line goes out of sight?  How much accessible space do I need for tending to my loco, and are there any special requirements for steam?  How effective is radio control when there is a house or a tunnel in the way?  Should there be a lot of view-points and operating positions, in case friends come around? Indeed, how many operators and trains do I need to cope with at the same time?  And finally, do I want to set it going and sit back with a beer whilst I glimpse it rushing through the undergrowth, or is it to be fully involving?
I must say I have zero experience in running a layout that I have designed, so I do sometimes worry if what I am in the process of creating will be interesting and flexible.  It will of course be a mixture of practicalities and desirable features, but the former is the dominant factor.  I have given no thought as to how points should be operated, simply assuming manual intervention when needed, and making them all accessible.
I know you really just want a catalogue of what other folk have done, but I would value a design guide along the lines I've described.  I wonder if anything like that exists?
Best regards, Tim

Offline John Candy

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2017, 07:47:11 AM »
Quote
JRFC seems to use a pneumatic system. It would be interesting to know why he chose this and how he has applied this.


Quote from a pending mag. article

"Originally, I had intended using a mix of pneumatic actuators and electric motors to
control the pointwork but ultimately decided (out of deference to the rain) on an all
pneumatic system".


To elaborate on above, I had originally acquired (and still have, sealed in their unopened packets) 11 brand new LGB 12010 point motors but after raising questions in this forum, decided against using them, for two reasons:-
1) I was told that they easily succumb to rust (they lasted just a couple of years in the driest part of Australia) and almost the whole of my line has overhanging trees which drip lots of water onto the track.
2) They have no "latching" mechanism and the Cliff Barker turnouts have a self-centring action which would involve making point locking mechanisms to work in conjunction with the LGB motors.


I also considered using waterproof servo motors with a digital controller (from MegaPoints) and also purchased a set of Minx Micro Drive units but (apart from the water peril) they would not be suitable to operate standard Cliff B turnouts (again the strain of the springing action of the blades would prematurely burn out the motors).

So (at not inconsiderable additional expense.... it has cost around 75GBP per switch..... and that excludes the cost of the 25 litre compressor/tank which I already had) I have gone totally pneumatic for point controls.

The Minx Microdrives will be used to power "bouncing" semaphores and the LGB motors are on the disposal list.

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline 492

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2017, 09:16:37 AM »
If planning a new railway, especially if there is a likelihood that coal fired locomotives will be employed, a very simple but useful factor to bear in mind is that there should be easy access to the main running line from the steaming up bays or sidings.

When up to pressure, coal fired locos don't take kindly to having to reverse or be turned before heading off.

Robert. 492. 

Offline cabbage

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2017, 10:01:57 AM »
Tim,
Having scoured the collection of books by the chaise I have to report that (unfortunately) the answer is no! But, you have leapfrogged my humble suggestion with a damn good proposal and one I think we should go with. Based on personal experience a guide of "what not to plant" near the railway would be useful...

At the moment I do not have any web hosting so I cannot post PNGs or JPGs here -something more to sort out....

regards

ralph

Offline John Candy

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2017, 10:23:55 AM »
Quote
I cannot post PNGs or JPGs here -

Attachments up to 100kB each (max. 5 per post) are allowed.
If you need to upload larger files, then contact me and I will over-ride the limit (or can allocate a directory on the server to which you can upload).

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline cabbage

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2017, 11:03:53 AM »
Ok -try again!

The first PNG shows the CPR at its current state of development. The next phase is obviously the "doubling up" of track on the great way round and the great north straight. Mine is as I have said a "diesel and electric" mainline.

The second PNG shows the Parkside layout. I do not know for sure but this seems to be a steam layout(?)

regards

ralph

Offline IanT

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2017, 11:04:27 AM »
It would also be possible to create a set of 'design' documents (published as downloadable PDFs) for placement in the download area of the Society's website. Let me know if you would like to pursue this option.

As an aside, I noticed that my previous post about this facility appeared in the 'logged on/members only' part of this Forum (so cannot be seen by anyone just lurking) - so I'll provide the link to the G3S download area again;

http://www.gauge3.org.uk/downloads-available-to-members

NOTE - the link 'title' is unchanged but this material is now available to anyone - not just members.

Regards,

IanT
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.

Offline AshleyW

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2017, 12:59:54 PM »
assume all this is in the member section? where do i find out my password?

Offline IanT

Re: Design and Planning
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2017, 01:11:18 PM »
Hi Ashley,

If you  are referring to the G3S "Downloads" section - it hasn't been moved per se but is now accessible to anyone who wishes to use it. I posted about this here recently (but you will need to log-on to this Forum to see the background detail).

Essentially it was agreed that the available Newsletter material was a useful resource to anyone who was interested in G3 (Member or not) and that we should make it available to the public. You therefore do not have to log-on to the G3S site access it.

Regards,

IanT
Nothing's ever Easy - At least the first time around.