GNR diagram 352 Horsebox

[John Candy]

You may recall my earlier proposal for a GNR horsebox kit (see  http://G3Forum.org.uk/index.php?topic=122.0 ) which attracted 5 interested parties in the 'Wagon Poll' (see http://G3Forum.org.uk/index.php?topic=152.0 ).

My original approach to Worsley Works requesting a quotation for producing the kit in brass drew a blank.

This new interest in laser cut timber kits has me re-assessing the possibilities.
The slab-sides, straight ends, planking (lack of panelling), louvres and door details seem to make this an ideal candidate as a 'Guinea pig' for a trial to see how well the process works for G3 coaching stock.

The strapping and other surface details could be produced as etched brass and/or cast overlays.

Mike has suggested a possible line of enquiry for the laser cutting, so who is 'up for it'?

Regards,
John.

P.S. I still need to source a large scale (Doncaster if possible) drawing but Mike has also suggested a contact I could try.

[Andy B]

John,
Do you have a photo of one that you could post up (or email if copyright is a problem)?

Thanks,

Andy

[John Candy]

Andy,

I will send you an off-list message with the details but for anyone with 'Historic Carriage Drawings, Vol 3', there are two photos on p.78 and a small (4mm scale) drawing.

They were built between 1897 and 1917, the last being withdrawn in 1952.

Regards,
John.

[IanT]

Yes, I am still interested John. Need to know the cost - but assuming it will be broadly in line with other wagon kits, I'll have one.

Regards,


Ian T

[Andy B]

I'm also interested, based on knowing approx cost as Ian said.

Andy

[John Candy]

A number of options have been suggested for producing the bodywork for this kit, most involving timber but different cutting techniques.
Laser-cutting is the 'front runner' at present, although 'pin routing' and hand cutting (employing templates) have also been suggested.

I am currently making enquiries (through the GNR Society) to obtain a large-scale drawing (hopefully a Doncaster GA) and once that is forthcoming, I shall be in a position to ask for a quote to produce the body parts.

So far, I have four confirmations of interest in the project but whether or not it proceeds to production will depend upon projected cost.

John.

[Kalinowski]

To John and Mike,

The growth in the number of wagon kits available for G3 is amazing, gratifying and one would hope will attract more folk to pursue G3 as the scale of choice. You are to be heartily congratulated for your sterling efforts. My own wagon rake would not exist if it were not for the ever growing range of excellent quality parts and complete kits.

That being said, I hear a little whispering voice in the background and to paraphrase the famous beer advert from the 1950s and 1960's this voice says  "What we want is coaches".

This is a problem because there are  so very many railway company types to choose from, (4 wheel, 6 wheel and bogie - Victorian era, Edwardian and modern) and one cannot satisfy all requests with the same ease as one can with wagons. For example only yesterday I came across the original GA drawings for the North London 4 wheel types at the Science Museum. Five of these still exist in preservation. The drawings for the LBSCR 4 wheel types also exist re the full size ones on the Bluebell. And so on..
Mike has made an excellent start on LNWR 4 wheels coaches. What about all the others?

Would it help to run a similar voting survey to the wagon survey in order to determine interest and future demand?

[IanT]

Hi Peter,

With regards to those North London four wheel coaches;

"The Engineer" (I think it was from memory) published a Centenary Edition a few years ago (1970 something?) and those GA's were included in it (and rather nice 'tinted' reproductions they were too) as well as the GA for the GNR 8' Single.

So I have them if you didn't acquire a copy and would like a scan for personal use.

Regards,

IanT

[John Candy]

Peter,

I agree entirely with your comments regarding the lack of passenger stock....I have been moaning for some while about this seeming abundance of locos and wagons, while even GRS seem to have been paying little attention to carriages.

The 'pot has been stirred' and the possibilities are being considered but, as you have said, the choice of prototypes will be a bone of contention.

It seems to me, what it needs is for small groups of members with similar interests to band together and co-ordinate limited production of their own chosen subject.

This is how the GNR horsebox project will be initiated, with Mike and myself preparing the groundwork.
This particular model will be designed with an eye to it becoming generally available if there is sufficient future demand.

Rather than initiate another Poll (which will probably prove inconclusive), my suggestion would be that anybody with a proposal for a limited production model should post a message in the forum (I will create a new Board which will be solely for the purpose of 'matchmaking', for want of a better description) and once a group has been established I will create 'private' areas within the forum to which only participants in any particular project have access. This will permit the exchange of ideas, progress reports, drawings, etc. between the group members, without the distraction of messages from members not included in the group.

Does this sound like a workable proposal?

Regards,
John.

Following Peter's response, I have created a new 'Board' entitled 'Start a Project : Join a Project' and you can find it at : http://g3forum.org.uk/index.php?topic=259.0

[John Candy]

A final update (for the present) on the GNR horsebox project.

Mike and I are working with a view to producing a kit with a laser-cut timber body.
It will be an experiment to see how well the technique can be adapted to G3 to produce an accurate scale model, while retaining strength and resistance to environmental factors such as damp.

If you are interested, then feel free to continue adding your comments to this message thread.

John.

[cabbage]

Damp causing distortion in wood is not really a problem. You simply require a thin spirit based varnish to soak into the pores and seal them. Once over with standard cellulose based grey car primer and they will never breathe again! Your alternative is the antiquing wax preparation that you slap on like paint -it has the consistency of thin grease. The wood looks 100 years old after about 4 days of "drying" -but no paint will now stick to it...

My exterior models are made from wood that has been treated with "EnSeal" and then exterior grade varnish before being painted with masonry paint. I am currently experimenting with a dunk trough full of "Cuprinol Clear" and pieces of balsa wood exposed to the normal Derbyshire environment!!!

regards

ralph

[MikeWilliams]

That's interesting Ralph.  Do you use plywood?  In preserving railway carriages plywood is often used now when of course it didn't exist when most pre-Grouping carriages were built.  I have had a test piece of untreated mahogany-faced BS-certified Marine ply, standing in the garden for about eight years and it hasn't degraded at all.  By contrast, some "exterior grade" and "water-resistant" ply used on an LMS carriage at Quainton Road at about the same time started to deteriorate after the first season and has now totally disintegrated and fallen off.

Models are not of course left outside 365 days of the year, but equally even the slightest risk of it delaminating would be a disaster.

So, do you use ply Ralph?   and if so what type?

Mike

[cabbage]

Yes, I do use plywood. It is 3mm three layer Birch Marine ply -the type normally used for making rowing '8's, sculls, and canoes. This can be appliqued with lollipop sticks and matchsticks to produce the required "texture".

Have a look here: http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/buildings.html

The buildings have remained outside since we moved here in the November of 2007. They could do with a clean from a scrubbing brush -but that is about all that has happened to them since they were first put out in 2004...

regards

ralph


PS I used brown primer on the building as I was re-spraying my moggy at the time -I had quite a bit spare(!)

Note : Before anyone reports Ralph to the RSPCA, I should point out that he owns a Morris Minor (c.1955, with a split windscreen, I believe).