New Gauge 3 Motorised Chassis

[Clive_F]

Yesterday I received for evaluation from Ince Loco Works, Wigan a prototype Gauge 3 motorised chassis also known as a "pug." Late last year I had seen similar items advertised on eBay by that firm at gauges up to G1. I had contacted them and ask whether I could commission from them a one-off chassis for Gauge 3. The firm is run by Phil Edwards who was trained as an engineer at BR Horwich.

I sent Phil information about Gauge 3 and also a length of Cliff Barker's 2.5" track. Phil was happy to oblige and he fitted building the prototype Gauge 3 pug around his usual work - there is a steady demand for his products which include Bluetooth based train controllers.

I was delighted with the result, a motorised chassis unit built to a very high standard indeed - photos to follow. Chassis side frames are 2mm steel with end and top plates also available if required in the same material. A standard 380 25mm motor (3-7.2 volts ) drives, via a brass work gear, two ¼" steel axles which run in ball races, the axles then coupled via a 6mm toothed rubber belt. Wheels are 40mm steel and the total weight of just over 500g which helps to give excellent traction. The chassis is very compact, just 2" high and 3½" wide, overall length 6 inches.

The chassis or "pug" could provide the underpinnings for a Gauge 3 industrial loco, 0-4-0 steam outline,with two units used as bogies providing plenty of power and speed for a Bo-Bo diesel or electric mainline passenger/freight outline among other applications. Bodies could be home built, kits or 3D printed. I have run the chassis on my short text track and it goes very well indeed both for low speed lugging and with quite a turn of speed when required. Power consumption is very modest, typically just 0.25 amps at 6 volts under light load. Once I've rigged up radio control and a simple coupling ( and cleared the winter debris from my main track ) I will do some full load tests.

Modestly priced and easily built basic locos using this chassis could go some way to remedying the absence of any motive power for Gauge 3  at any sort of affordable price and which in turn must be a serious deterent to enthusiasts trying the "biggest and best" scenic gauge.

Phil mentioned a target price of around £80 for copies and he is offering various optional extras at small additional costs and can also accommodate special requests from buyers, each example being built to customer order.

So if you are interest in acquiring a chassis like this, please contact Phil Edwards via email at Ince Loco Works, Wigan, Lancs - incelocoworks@gmail.com.

Clive

[IanT]

As the basis for a small G3 battery electric loco Clive that's a very good price.
On the chassis you have - what is the wheelbase please?

Regards,

IanT

[Clive_F]

Hello Ian,

Thanks for your interest - wheelbase 2¾"/70mm.

First photo attached - more to follow, probably as follow on threads.



Clive

[IanT]

Some time ago, I was thinking about the simplest/cheapest small battery electric (standard gauge) loco you could build in G3. I started work on a Muir Hill petrol shunter - think Fordson Tractors - and was in the process of making a prototype when I got "distracted" (e.g. I started working on the Sentinel 100HP model instead).

Just a week or so ago, I dug the MH frames/buffer plates out and thought about carrying on with it - I'm in the process of building a simple mitred gear-box to go with a geared DC motor at the moment. But this could be a much better/simpler way to make an inexpensive MH version available - although I'm sure there would be other prototypical locos suitable too (The Muir may not take everyone's fancy).

I was thinking a sheet metal cab (could be laser cut) and 3D printed bonnet etc. What do you think - too ugly to be something folk would want??  :-)

Regards,

IanT

[IanT]

There's a 4mm version shown on this RM Web thread to give you some idea of it's size with respect to a standard gauge wagon.

Branchlines Muir Hill

Regards,

IanT

[Clive_F]

I've had a look at that little Fordson based loco on the RM website. This looks like a dead fit for the Ince chassis.

Note that Phil is producing a top deck plate and end plates which look very like those on that shunter ( but end plates not tapered.) I already have the two end plates and he has included a fitting kit, they just clamp over the chassis spacing threaded struts.

I will be fitting the end plates tomorrow and will post a photo. They are wider than the chassis at 3¼" to provide body width. The plates are 1½" deep which is the depth of the chassis side plates, the 2" I quoted was total height above the track.

On its way to me is the deck plate which is full sized at 6" long and 3¼" wide. Once that is fitted, I would only need to put together a little cab and I would have a complete loco. Note that all these plates are 2mm steel like the chassis plates. This will further add useful weight for traction purposes. As to price for the plates, at a guess, if Phil did the all three as a set , we might be looking at a further £25 or so.

So you are could therefore be looking at a complete running G3 loco for not too much over £100.

[John Candy]

When Clive first drew my attention to this, my immediate thoughts (without having the full specs) were of an English Electric steeplecab loco of either battery or OHL type, as used at power stations,etc. I think I recall having seen a photo a battery example in War Department livery.

I have photos but no drawing, so cannot know how the dimensions match up.

Regards,
John.

P.S.
OHL example
http://www.emus.co.uk/spondonA.jpg

Battery example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidumpleby/23959357032

[IanT]

The Muir Hill is a very simple loco - the frames I made are 1.5mm mild steel I think, which could be easily laser cut.

Haven't thought too deeply about where the batteries will all go (etc) but I was going to cheat and have a shunters truck if neccessary. But £100 would be very affordable for a starter loco...

Regards,

IanT

[John Candy]

Having looked into the EE steeple-cab locos a little more, it is recorded that battery loco, works No. 1378 (Built at Dick Kerr Works, Preston) entered service with the GWR in 1945 and when later acquired by the CEGB went to Kearsley Power Station (Bolton). It is preserved in the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry.
Having a connection with a mainline company (especially the Great Western) could increase its appeal.

I would be willing (if there is a drawing available and the chassis proves suitable) to produce patterns for a cast resin body a la mode, the Plantagenet Project Sentinel.

There were hundreds of these EE locos produced between 1920 and 1950 all externally similar with either battery or live wire collection.

Regards,
John.

[Clive_F]

End plates fitted this morning,very straightforward.

Phil provides a handy fitting kit with four clamp bars and eight M3 countersunk allen head machine screws of exactly the right length and full nuts. Note that the holes in the plates are countersunk on one side.
You will need a 2mm allen key and ideally a 5.5mm spanner.

Photos attached - look good to me. You could of course weld the plates on. But the whole point of this starter loco is for people with no technical experience or special tools who just want to build a Gauge 3 layout in their garden and have some trains to run on it. We all had to start somewhere.

Can I ask for your help in finding a supplier of cheap basic buffers and couplings? On the theme of keeping the price of any loco down, the buffers need not be finescale or sprung. Likewise a strong but basic coupling. Both ready to fit with no machining necessary.

I may start a separate thread about buffer/coupling suppliers.

Clive

[MikeWilliams]

I would be willing (if there is a drawing available and the chassis proves suitable) to produce patterns for a cast resin body a la mode, the Plantagenet Project Sentinel.

I have been casting a further batch of Sentinel bonnets for the G3S this week.  They weight almost 300g - just the bonnet!  I guess it all helps adhesion.

Mike

[John Candy]

I have been casting a further batch of Sentinel bonnets for the G3S this week.  They weight almost 300g - just the bonnet!  I guess it all helps adhesion.

That reminds me (apropos your comment on dumb buffers in the related thread) that I also produced a dumb buffer pattern/mould as an option on the Sentinel.

As originally conceived, the Sentinel was to have been a sub-300GBP track powered kit.

By the time all the electronics for radio control had been added, the cost crept upwards.

"Plantagenet" and "Arthur" (the two prototypes) cost around 300GBP each in parts (excluding the patterns/moulds, etc.).
I note it being suggestedthat this new project will produce a loco for c.100GBP.

Be warned....  low cost locos have a tendency to end up costing far more than anticipated!

Regards,
John.

[AshleyW]

may be a better idea to get slightly longer wheelbase to make such as an 04 with skirts, see vidoe of a g1 version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foVGaSvLFaE

[AshleyW]

better shot of 04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiDO3w2OqUk

[MikeWilliams]

So far as I know the 04 was 6-coupled.  If the skirts hide the wheels enough that you can't see the centre ones, then I don't think the wheelbase matters much?
Mike