Crossing Modules

[IanT]

Elsewhere I've talked about the problems I have of transporting long modules and also promised some more info on the 'crossing' in question.

I wasn't sure if I could generate a photo of the crossing design - so I've just gone off and had a play. It finally involved printing a PDF of the CAD layout (at 10:1) and screen capturing the PDF image (I guess I could have printed it and then scanned it). Something went slightly amiss in the process - but I think it's good enough to get an idea.

The two turnouts used in the crossing are both REA E at 1:6.00 RAM, with a turnout radius of 3502mm (and an absolute minimum radius of 3470mm). The two modules shown are 1350mm by 610mm. The track centres are at 185mm (see recent posts on clearance). Hopefully, this crossing will handle most G3 stock Ok. We will see.

Once I have the ability to transport the required building materials - I will be getting going on the actual  build. At this time - I'm planning on using a traditional approach to the trackwork, using hand cut (OK, with a power saw) wooden sleepers and timbers, with Society cast chairs and rail. I will obviously lay out the track itself using a Templot generated template (just the crossing elements are 16 pages of A4).

We will have to see how we get on - but perhaps there will be something to see by the AGM.

I'll try to show some progress here from time to time.

Regards,

IanT

[Andy B]

Looks like you have a bit of timber-shoving to do yet, Ian, before commencing construction.
Could be a job for tomorrow afternoon whilst the Queen is on the telly..........

Andy

[IanT]

You are quite correct Andy - my mastery of Templot (or rather complete lack of it) is still a problem.

I am certainly going to try and tidy up the 'timbering' but to be honest I had already decided that if I could not master the software sufficiently, I would do so by modifying 'on the job' so to speak.

Even so Templot is a very useful tool. I'm not sure that I would want to design a complete layout using it (although I know many smaller scale enthusiasts do design substantial layouts with it) but that is more a matter of the time I'm willing to invest in learning it vs my need to do so.

For G3 use - where it is very useful to be able to build specific turnout configurations, it is very good indeed as a template generator. The problem is that (like any powerful tool) you do need to spend some time to learn it properly. I had not used it for a few years and I virtually had to go back to scratch and start over. At least this time around I knew not to try and make it work like a CAD system - it isn't one.

With Templot you feed in the turnout parameters (or modify the default) and it 'generates' (e.g. draws) the template. The problem then becomes one of understanding what those parameters are (and what they represent in real life). It can also handle different track types (for instance GWR variants) so if you are particular about the period detail for instance - you clearly need to know a bit about the track standards of the railway in question at that time.

However once you have a usable template is does make it much easier to cut and place the timber and rail components over the top. This would be true of any G3 turnout required, whether for exhibition or garden use.

Regards,

IanT

[IanT]

It's a bit quiet on the Forum - so I thought you might be interested in "making sticks"!

My crossing will be built using standard Society whitemetal chairs and therefore I will need some wooden sleepers and timbering once the modules are built and the template finalised. I decided I had better get on and get some sleepering ready. These sleepers will be a scale 10" x 5" x 8' 6" - which needs strips 11.25 x 5.62mm. A quick root around in my 'stock' didn't find anything too near this - so I looked at what I did have - and this turned out to be some pine 15.3mm thick by about 90 x 710 long. They had once been the slats from my sons bunk beds (from about 18 years ago - but I knew they would come in handy one day!).

I used my table saw to chop them into 11.25mm strips, and then split these strips in half with my bandsaw, giving strips about 7.5 mm thick. Once I'm getting nearer the right size I need - I use a router set-up in an old drill stand to finish to thickness. Sounds like a lot of work - but once you are set-up - you can cut to size very quickly. Five minutes on the table saw, the same on both the bandsaw and router. So I produced about 50 lengths in about 30 minutes all told (partly because I couldn't find my router bits).

The guide for the router is just a length of T&G with two strips nailed to it. Once I've got the thickness I need - I lock the stand and just pass the strips though in quick succession. It gives a good clean finish and was bang on 5.6mm (measured using a digital vernier)

Why use the table saw and the bandsaw? Well the table saw is quick and clean for the larger cutting up -whereas my cheapo bandsaw would struggle with the first cuts. What it is better for - is cutting thinner strips where I would not want to use the table saw (even with a push stick!).

This method is not just good for sleepers by the way - I often use it to produce "scale" timbers when modelling...and the right size is not always available - although for my wagons I tend to use Beech.

Want to stick to your plastic sleepering? Well maybe - but I have the whitemetal chairs and for a small effort - I will get the sleeprs and timbering I need for the crossing for free...   

[IanT]

Ok - just hit the posting limit - so here are the next photos

Splitting the 'sticks' with the bandsaw - not so nerve racking as trying to use the table saw on thinner parts!

Then taking down the strips down to final size in the router jig (if it deserves such a title!)

Regards,

Ian T

[IanT]

Jewsons called me back this morning and Marine Ply (BS1088) from them is currently 29.21 GBP for 2440 x 1220 x 6mm and 45.31 for the 9mm. This compares to the same sized WBP board from Wickes at 17.15 GBP (6mm) and 23.89 GBP (9mm). All prices include VAT at 20%. In both cases you have to collect - and with Jewsons the Marine is not ex-stock - you have to order it (2-3 working days).

So it works out at about twice the price for the Marine ply. The guy at Jewsons couldn't tell me how many 'ply' this was by the way - but I will assume that the 9mm Marine is 5-ply.

By my calculations, two sheets of 1220 x 2440 will provide for two 1350 x 628 modules - with enough left over for another 900 x 628 module. I've assumed 200mm deep sides, ends and infill pieces.

To achieve symmetry for twin tracks spaced at 185mm centres - the module width should be 635mm.

However sheet is commonly available in UK either in 610 or 1220mm widths (e.g. it's still 2 or 4 foot!) so 610mm is probably a sensible compromise for the width of twin track modules. In this case - I will use 9mm ply and inset the module 'top' giving an effective 628mm width. Remember the front track 'centre' on both single and twin track modules is 225mm from the "front of module" - so differing width modules will only be staggered at the rear. 

After some hesitation - I decided to go with the Marine - as I want them to see me out and I'm only intending to build one or two modules a year - so the cost - whilst still an issue - will be spread over time (which always makes it seem much less expensive until you stop to add it all up!!) 

Hopefully I will get to try my new inflatable roof rack before too long to bring my 'module' material home.

Regards.

[cabbage]

(Cough!!!)

I do seem to remember that someone suggested that the size of a single module be 30cm by 90cm...

(Maybe there was a reason for this?)

regards

ralph

[IanT]

Yes, indeed you did Ralph.

In fact my Mk1 modules were single track and 3' by 9" - and used the C3 connection plates. I have six of them - but they are quite narrow. When I saw the Spur II modules - they clearly had decided to go 'wider'. I think part of the reason is to provide some security in case of a de-railment.

Spur II is defined as a minimum 500mm width but they do not spec the module length.

Many other 'scales' state their modules in terms of both length and width which I felt would be useful. The obvious length multiplier was 3ft (same as the rail length) but in the interests of metrication it seemed better to use 900mm as the length "unit". The minimum width for single track came from that at 450mm. The 900 x 450 module also seems to be about the largest many saloon cars will take in their boots.

The thing about most standards is that they can pretty much be whatever you want them to be - almost arbitary - so it turns out that the real secret to a "standard" is that everyone uses them. Sometimes a standard happens because it is the first one that "came along" and sometimes because it is the best one that survived. Sometimes it is hard to know why or how 'something' has become a standard.

The G3 Module Standards were not the first nor do I claim that they necessarily the best - but the important thing is that some thought has gone into them and that they are perfectly useable. All folk need to do is use them and the G3 modular standards will grow and be successful - but someone has to start the ball rolling... hence the crossing.

Ian T

[cabbage]

I based  the module on 30cm x 90cm simply by it being an easy size to get from a standard length of 1.9cm x 15.0cm plank of wood. I could then "chop saw" it then screw and glue it together -but 45cm is only slightly more expensive...

regards

ralph

[IanT]

Jewson called and said the plywood had arrived - so I cleaned the roof this morning and fitted the Handirack ready to go down and collect the two 8x4 foot sheets. I'd been a little worried because I'd managed to overlook the fact that my Alfa has a 'shark-fin' aerial in the middle (and at the back) of the roof. Fortunately, part of this unscrewed and the remaining fitting was then below the level of the Handirack.

It was pouring rain when I set off to Jewsons - and a few drips 'wicked' along the straps inside the door (and from there down my neck).

Arriving at Jewsons I was shown the ply stacked inside against a wall - however I could find no evidence of a BS1088 stamp. What I did find was various 'CE' markings - most of which were not very informative. I was more than a little concerned that this was not "Marine" plywood at all. So the guy let me Google the CE markings and eventully I found a reference that made sense - in that it turned out that what I had was EN13986 ply to EN636-3S - E1 Grade.

I haven't looked into this further (as yet) but the information found suggested that this was actually an exterior grade of Plywood but that it was bonded with phenolic resin. This sounded better than WBP but didn't seem to be the full 'Marine' standard. After a bit of ho-humming - I decided to accept it as other sources of Marine had been more expensive and much further away.

The Handirack worked well - although I would not want to go on the motorway with two 8 foot sheets on the roof! As I was unloading at home I noticed a stamp on the edge that stated "EN636-3s WBP Marine"

So, whilst I suspect it's not full Marine quality, I do hope it will more than good enough and hopefully much better than the much cheaper WBP. I just need a dry morning to get on with the cutting.

Regards,

Ian T

[IanT]

For reference, I've posted the best information I've found on EN636-3 and BS1088 plywoods as a seperate thread.

It is hard to directly compare these two - but I very much suspect that BS1088 is made to a higher quality standard than EN636 but it does come with a significant price premium.

However, for our purposes I feel that any board made to EN636-3 will be more than sufficient for modules that will not be permanently left outside and that have been suitably treated (e.g. sealed inside and out with paint or varnish).

Regards,

Ian T

[IanT]

So I've actually started to cut the ply - although rain stopped play.

It's been a while since I last had to chop up some large sheets to size and I'd forgotten what a pain it was both handling and cutting them. With the machinery in my 'shed' there wasn't too much room to do it inside (quite apart from the sawdust) so I set up two Workmates to grip some 4-5 foot timbers cross-wise and added a kind of saw horse for good measure. With everything clamped up - it still needed a cut in two parts - as I couldn't reach across the 4' width. Restarting the saw was a little nerve racking but worked OK. All of the cuts now can be done in one pass.

I have some aluminium sections that I've screwed to a 6' length of timber. The ali guides the saw and the timber lets you clamp it to the work. Even so - it's a hassle doing long cuts well.

The upside was that the EN636 ply cut very cleanly, with very little splintering and having had a good look at the cut edges, I can find no voids in the middle. I've still got some cutting to do - but the smaller pieces are much easier to handle (and store) and hopefully will be finished tomorrow.

However, smaller sheet sizes are undoubtedly easier to manage and if I'd been using 'ordinary' WBP from B&Q - I could have found a store that would have cut it to the required size (they list which stores offer this facility on their website). Jewsons don't offer this service.

However, I do want these to be both robust and weatherproof - so I'm sure I will be happy with the end result - and forget the hassle (and extra cost) before too long. 

[IanT]

And just in case you are interested - here is the set-up.

Ian

P.S. Should this thread be called "Cross-over Modules" rather than "Crossing..."??

[IanT]

So just a week to the AGM and I'm beginning to worry about having something to show.

My first 1350mm module is glued up and awaiting legs - so I will glue up the second this morning. I effectively have a 'kit' of parts for four modules - with the components cut to size and with batons screwed and glued in place. This all took quite a while to do - much more than I expected.

Having made some mistakes in this area in the past - I decided to proceed carefully with the first assembly and set up two Workmates with battons running crossways in each - leveled in both directions. I then dry-test assembled everything before glueing (I used the 'Gorilla' again) the three central bearers. Once dried I reinforced these joints with (pre-drilled) screws. I left the two 'end' pieces as a seperate 'glue' - to try and make sure they were 90 degrees all around to the rest of the module. Just about to go and see how these have turned out. It does take time doing things in stages as I only have one glueing platform (thought about asking herself to use the kitchen table but chickened out!).

However, I should now be able to work on things concurrently.

Andy will be pleased to know that I've been practising "Timber Shoving" and it turned out to be quite easy to do - once I realised how to switch between templates (was forced to read the manual again)! Of course I now have to decide my final design and there are lots of choices (switch type/size, sleeper length, parallel or angled timbers etc). So far I've done about six or seven different versions. A more 'modern' look is probably neater visually but normally I'd be tempted to go for a pre-grouping style.

Getting near to 'make my mind up time' though.

Regards,

Ian T   

[IanT]

Well, the 'ends' had moved very slightly when checked yesterday - but not enough to make it worthwhile breaking the joint and re-doing. Just enough to be irritating though!

I finished screwing up all the glued joints and then started on the second 1350 module. It's glued and I will (hopefully) sneak down later and screw that up too - hopefully nothing will have shifted this time.

I've started to think about the adjustable legs. I had meant to use 'door-stops' for feet but Wickes don't seem to sell their economy 10 packs any more. Since I didn't want to spend 2.39 on two very small stops from Wickes, I went over the road and looked in Homebase. They didn't sell doorstops at all - but did have something they call 'chair buffers' (to screw on the end of chair legs). The sizes varied slightly so I sorted out the larger 7/8" ones and got three packs (12) for a fiver (a lot better than 20+ quid for 10!). I've just pushed 80mm M6 cheese head screws through them - and then secured a penny washer on top with a nut run down the thread. Seems to be on the right track & I now have 10 adjustable "feet". I need to think about how to attach them to the legs now...

Photo shows second 1350 module being glued up yesterday - with first 1350 standing behind it. As you can see, I favour a simple approach to carpentry!

I've also printed out the track template and amused Herself by laying this out on the lounge carpet. Amused tolerance may be a more correct term.

Regards,

Ian T