Author Topic: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?  (Read 5612 times)

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Offline John Candy

Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« on: August 29, 2011, 01:09:07 PM »
Having decided to build my GRS kit of the Great Western Dean 2021 Class Pannier Tank as battery electric (and not live steam as supplied) I face the problem of fitting all the electronic gubbins (including sound card and related digital switches) into a small tank loco.

In previous models I have used either Brian Jones Mac5, Electronize or Peter Spoerer's Electron 12 ESC's but am now looking for something even smaller.

The Viper 10 looks to be a very compact unit ....has anyone experience of this model and how well does it perform?

Another question is the matter of voltage; the Viper 10 is rated at 10A , 6 to 16V.
I suspect it will not be possible to fit a 13 AA cell pack although 12V (10 cells) should be possible.
My LNER N5 0-6-2T copes perfectly well with 14.4V and is a much larger loco, so if I can fit 14.4V into the 2021 then I know it should be fine.
Any comments from members with battery-powered GRS panniers (either 2021 or 57XX/8750 classes)?

John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline keith Bristol

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2011, 07:00:08 PM »
John,

I ran a viper in my prairie, with 16 AA cells no problem. However because I have a sound card in it i found the slow speed pick up a little jerky and the sound card ran with Brian Jones card much better. I could never really get the sound v speed right and I can with the Mac 5. Good size, if you dont want to buy one intially you could try mine....

Hope this helps.

Keith

Offline John Candy

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2011, 04:54:55 PM »
Keith,
Thanks for the offer, it would be useful to try the Viper to see how it performs with the MyLocoSound card.
When you say it worked fine but with the sound card fitted was "jerky", was it the loco movement that was jerky or just the sound?
Which sound card were you using?
It will be a couple of months before I start the 2021 kit as I am working on the Dean Goods at present.
Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline Moonraker

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2011, 07:26:54 AM »
John,

We (at MyLocoSound) have done a lot of work with the Viper ESC in recent months. The essential problem is that Mtronics (the maker) originally developed their speed controllers for racing cars.....which don't go backwards. As a result, locos run very well forwards but not so well in reverse, which was (for them) an aferthought. If you were to look at the output waveforms on an oscilloscope, as we have, then you would see nice clean pulses when going forwards whereas they are a bit all over the place in reverse.

We have been able to adjust our soundcards to work resonably well with the Viper in reverse but it is by no means perfect...we just have to make do with what the Viper gives us.
Peter Lucas

Offline John Candy

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2011, 09:49:43 AM »
Peter,

Thank you for explaining the problem with the Viper which accounts for the problem which Keith had with his loco.
I am now looking for alternatives but suspect there is nothing smaller than the Mac5.

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline MEL 41

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2011, 11:05:19 AM »
John, I have several G scale locos which are battery powered using Cliff Barker's system. The higher rated of his reciever/speed controllers should be able to cope with most G3 locos and is very compact. Cliff is also a My Loco Sound agent, so there shouldn't be any issues there.

From personal experience I can vouch both for the kit and Cliff's excellent service.

Offline keith Bristol

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2011, 08:12:08 PM »
Thanks Moonraker for the information, The loco did work better in one direction than the other.
i was using the mylocosound card.... i now need to find one for the unit.

I have to say I would stick with Brian Jones, I have managed to balance the mylocosound card with the mac5.. still not in sync at low speed but sounded great at line speed.

Keith

Offline keith Bristol

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2011, 08:14:06 PM »
ohh john...

I have 16 aa's a smoke unit, a sound card, a mac 5 and the futaba rc unit in a GRS peckett.... Just!!!!

Keith

Offline John Candy

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2011, 11:41:10 PM »
Mel,

I have looked at the Cliff Barker controls but (as far as I am able to make out) they seem to work with a key fob control with buttons (rather like the device which unlocks a car) and are "AM" radio control.
Not sure I could "get on" with that, I rather prefer the old fashioned "stick" controls and have switched to 2.4 GHz control,
I am sure they probably work very well but in my case it is a case of "old dog.....new tricks" and I would get confused holding a conventional "stick" controller in one hand a "new fangled" digital device in the other!

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline John Candy

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2011, 11:44:08 PM »
Keith,

The name of your Peckett........is it "TARDIS"?!
I would be interested to see just how you have packed that little lot in to such a small loco.
There is hope yet for fitting the Mac5 into the 2021!

Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline MEL 41

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2011, 11:54:02 AM »
John, Cliff does do a key fob operated system, but I use his TX hand controllers. These are button controlled, but the controlability has to be seen to be believed. I find they are much more convenient to handle (one handed) than the conventional RC controllers when coupling, uncoupling even filming etc. If you are able to, have a look at my article in the Feb 2011 Garden Rail which details this system.

For slow speed control and ease of use, I've not seen any better. They also have a number of excellent features that I have not seen on other systems like halt and resume and simplified direction changing for shunting.

Offline John Candy

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2011, 12:30:54 PM »
Mel,
Thanks for the additional information.
I don't take Garden Rail (in the past there has not been much G3 content and local newsagents...including WH Smith.... don't stock it) but I will see if I can borrow a copy.
Regards,
John.
My fellow Members, ask not what your Society can do for you, ask what you can do for your Society.

Offline AllWight

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2011, 02:26:51 PM »
Hi chaps I have fitted one of these systems to a friends RC engine and although it was easy to wire up i personally do not like the fact that you don't have a more controllable speed setting. For example my dad has DCC on his LGB and 0n30 and they all work on 128 speed increments so the speed will gradually increase and decrease alot smoother. With the RC transmitters such as the Futaba and Spektrum models they are over sized when you consider we are only by an large using one channel in order to drive our engines forwards and backwards. The good thing about them is you have a gradual speed increase and you know that full forward and full reverse is the fastest the model will go and anything in between is on a sliding scale of speed. With the push button system it is more noticeable once the speed increments increase and has the effect of giving a slightly jolty pull away. On my dads Digitrax DCC system the controller pot will turn the speed up to 99 and most models wont actually pull away until around 15 on that particular set up. The end result is extremely smooth running regardless of the scale. I feel that the larger the scale the smoother the models should run as it is more noticeable when the engines in the larger scales suddenly take off. The speed increments on the Digitrax system increase singularly 1,2,3 etc. However it can be altered to triple increments where it goes up 1,4,7,10 etc. When the second system is in place it will be more noticeable instantly the the engine pulls away. Therefore i think the RC transmitters such as Futaba and Spektrum are in a way more superior in the running performance.

Mark

Offline MEL 41

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2011, 04:29:28 PM »
In the absence of the Garden Rail article, a link to a video of one of my narrow gauge locos (with a glimpse of G3 at the beginning) running with the Cliff Barker system.

http://www.youtube.com/user/yb281?blend=22&ob=5#p/a/u/0/PC52IH0Bqfs

Offline hornbeam

Re: Viper 10 ESC ... anyone using?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2011, 06:34:27 PM »
John

What's your plan with the steamy bits your not going to use?

Simon.