putting more Modern Image modelling in the G3 newsletter

[Geoff Nicholls]

I'll have a table at the AGM, where I'll be encouraging members to pass on their stories of modelling the modern British railway scene. I've attached a copy of a leaflet I'll be handing out.

[454]

Geoff,
Not sure what you mean about the modern British railway scene.

Most of the loco hauled trains are no more.

I travelled recently on a Virgin train from Derby to Chesterfield, it was a service from London St Pancras to Glasgow Central. It consisted of a 4 car multiple unit & was packed to overcapacity. Is this the modern scene you mention?
This train "in my day" was called "The Thames- Clyde Express" & had about 12 coaches & was hauled by a Jubilee.

However, now the scene seems to be dominated by fancy colour graphicked multiple units & there is a dominant overhead catenary mileage.

Is that what you mean about the modern British railway scene?

The so called modern diesels seem to be confined to history if scrapped & preserved like the steamers on the preservationist scene. The Class 66 may be the current modern diesel loco still at large on the network.

Electrics were considered "modern" but even the blue electrics originally on the West coast main line have been despatched to history. The APT was modern but is now no more.

For my part, I am constructing a Class 44 Peak diesel. This was a prototype made at Derby in 1959. Most have been broken up now but 2 survivors of the class remain in preservation. Is this what you mean by modern?
Or do you mean anything that is not steam?

All being well I should be attending the AGM day & hope to hang around the Midlands Group display table where my work in progress of my Peak diesel named "Kinder Scout" will be on display. Hope it will behave itself & do a bit of demo running.

So I am not certain as to what you call "modern".

Look forward to meeting you on Saturday.

Cheers
Dave
454

[Geoff Nicholls]

Diesel and Electric Modellers Unit (DEMU) talk about the "Post Modernisation era" by which they mean the BR modernisation plan. That covers everything not steam, from the class 100 DMU's of my childhood in Marple, to the class 70 I saw this morning round the corner from where I live now in Leyton, encompassing the class 45's I used to see at Loughborough in the 70's
So yes, I would say a class 44 counts. and I don't think we see enough of it in the society.
As an aside about overcrowding, my other interest is pre grouping Great Eastern. The GER took an 8' 0" wide carriage with five a side seats, and widened it to 9' 0" which in their view meant 6 seats, or 12 people in a space 9' 0" by 5' 3". Plus the standing passengers, say 10 more. Admittedly that is only from Essex into Liverpool Street, put it puts current complaints into some sort of perspective.

[cabbage]

ERRRMMM....

I think I should reply here. I build Electrics with a "live" Diesel and have a Steam electric (a Heilmann). However I would class none of these as "modern era". The Fell D/M is the most recent. The to be built "Peak" (there will be three of these locally) will then become the most modern. My son would like to build a Pullman 5BEL and I would like to build an EP-2.

My locos come from UK, France, Switzerland, and The US of A -and I am not English!!!

I think your question would be better phrased as "Do you model Traction?"

regards

ralph

[Geoff Nicholls]

To return to my original point:
large numbers of younger enthusiasts are modelling what they've seen on British railways over the past 20 years or so. How do we attract them to gauge 3, and how do we help them produce what interests them in this scale?
For me personally the absolute essentials for these locos are the wheels and a motor/gearbox. I cannot produce them myself, and I believe I represent the majority of average modellers. I think if we have an axle traction motor gearbox which can be used in multiple, 3' 7" wheels and 3' 9" wheels, then all  the rest is decoration that most people can do. Without those two essentials for me, and I believe for the vast majority, then hoovers, slugs, sheds, skips and tin rockets are impossible. End of story, end of interest in gauge 3.
I am about to experiment with an ABC gears traction motor marketed as being for gauge  1. If that works, problems solved and anything is possible. There are rumours that Slaters are thinking of producing a gauge 3 traction motor. If that is true, than again problem solved. But until then, for most of us the GRS 08 and bubblecar is all we've got.

[Andy B]

A package of info on Cl37's, HAA's, STV's & SOV's is already packed in my box to bring.
No interest in modelling them myself, but happy to help where I can access the sources of data for others.

Andy

[cabbage]

The Chris Barron Peak design includes a motor axle combination that would provide all that most people would ever require. I will admit that I had my doubts about the PTFE infused bronze bushes -but by all accounts Dave says that they work like a charm.

When I was Secretary I did propose that the Society make and sell 3 feet 8 inch wheels to cover all locos. This would still be in BR spec(!) Dave could you post a pic of the motor axle combo please? These are all laser cut steel parts from MEL Model Engineers Laser (I think?)

The bogies from the same plans would also cover Class 40,44,45,46, (one) 97, SR electrics, SR diesels, and the NBL Gas Turbine.

So, as all the bogies that I built previous to my NER EE-1 were made on the work surface by the kitchen sink and I didn't have a lathe or a mill then either... This also includes building the porcupine boiler for the Heilmann. If MEL could make the bogie side plates then the world would open up. Alternatively there is a sheet of steel and a wire saw. All you need is vision (and maybe a goodly dollop of drive!!!)

regards

ralph

[454]

Hi y'all,

Axle hung motors? This is an established solution. Seems to work just fine. Although having stated that I have made modifications to Chris Barron's original design. Follow my Peak diesel thread elsewhere on this forum.

Why reinvent the wheel?

Cheers
Dave
454

[454]

Forgot to mention, come along & see the axle hung motors for yourself at Biggleswade on Saturday.
Keeping my fingers crossed that they do not fry in a cloud of smoke through fun play value before then.

Cheers
Dave
454

[Geoff Nicholls]

Do you offer  those traction motors with gears for sale? How much do they cost and what is the lead time?

[Geoff Nicholls]

Re:
"A package of info on Cl37's, HAA's, STV's & SOV's is already packed in my box to bring.
No interest in modelling them myself, but happy to help where I can access the sources of data for others"

Andy, that would be very helpful, the HAA's were rebuilt into several different wagons which can be seen today. I wouldn't mind modelling an HAA as itself, but I don't think they were ever seen singly.

[AllWight]

Hi Dave

It would be wise to check that the class 44 will pass through Chale, Rogers section of the Blackgang railway. This has tight radius and will really push the loco to its limits especially if we run it through the sidings.

Mark

[454]

Geoff wrote:
Do you offer  those traction motors with gears for sale? How much do they cost and what is the lead time?

my reply to Geoff:
No I am not in business to make or sell anything. I share my construction experiences with others only.
I like modifying existing designs to make them better or easier to assemble, not necessarily cheaper.

The lead time is quite reasonable:
1) Motor from Technobots.
2) Spacer from Technobots.
3) Gears from HPC gears at Chesterfield.
4) Metal work from Model Engineers Laser, I sent a revised drawing for incorporation of flanged PTFE impregnated PB.
Malcolm High has the CAD drawing which will facilitate readiness of a laser cutting order.
5) Flanged PTFE impregnated phosphor bronze bearings from Simply Bearings.

All above were ex stock & arrived in quick time by the post, exception being laser cutting which took a couple of weeks.

6) The springs, split pin, 7BA bolts & round or hex stretcher material were all out of the scrap box or my home workshop stock cupboard.

7) The horn blocks were milled from brass & drilled & reamed to 8mm journals.

The axles were made from 10mm diam precision ground silver steel to match the flanged bearing selection above.

9) The wheels were machined from round pre cut mild steel blanks.

-------------------------------

Allwight stated :
It would be wise to check that the class 44 will pass through Chale, Rogers section of the Blackgang railway. This has tight radius and will really push the loco to its limits especially if we run it through the sidings.

My reply to Mark:

I see the problem there Mark. There is no chance sending it through the sidings, the bogies would be crippled by the tight point work. Although I have tested it on 8 feet radius it is not clear that the body overhang would foul any lineside furniture, platform etc. No more so than a bogie coach. The leading & trailing pilot trucks could easily snag in tight radii complex point work, i.e. anything other than simple turnouts. Reverse curves untested & think they maybe a no-no.

It will be interesting to try it though.

Tonight the RC & Electronize ESC were wired up & the thing came to life for the first time on a 10 feet bit of straight track much to my surprise. Currently unsprung so further tuning to get all the wheels driving the loco in contact with the track will be after Biggleswade.

Cheers
Dave

[blagdon]

Geoff and friends, to get back to the topic title; I'm sure our editor would be only to pleased to include ' non-steam prototype' articles in the newsletter if only people would submit them!

Looking forward to seeing a class 44 as you call the original 'Peaks' running at a Get-to-Gether; in green of course.

Ian the Gauge '3' Pirate

[Geoff Nicholls]

Ian,
very succinctly put. You've condensed the whole of the first part of my argument into one sentence. I would add "Don't wait until your model is finished"  These things take a while to build, so send in progress reports, like they do with the Venture project.
Debate about the second part: the need for commercially available wheels and traction motors continues.
Part 3: where, oh where, can we get decent GA drawings, hasn't really started yet