Battery power

[John Candy]

Jon,

If your Slater's box is marked GBG3-50C, then it is the same unit as in my J39 and to be fitted to the 2251.
It will not turn very fast on a 9V supply (I have checked it using a large non-rechargeable EverReady PP9 which is putting out 9.7V) since the motor is rated @ 24V. I would suggest 14.4V nominal (i.e 12 x AA Ni-MH) for your application.... at 50:1 I would estimate it should give in the region of a scale 40mph.

Regards,
John.

[Jon Nazareth]

John
I've measured the case of my motor and it matches yours so, it can be assumed that they are the same model.  I'll phone Slaters later on and check to see if it is actually a 24 volt motor.

On another tack.  I've remembered that I have an MSC, 25:1, 12 volt Crailcrest motor and 1/4" axle gearbox.  Would this be okay to drive Lion?

Jon

[John Candy]

Jon,

If the Crailcrest unit fits, then I see no reason why it shouldn't work.

With a 12V motor, 9.6V nominal (i.e. 8 x AA Ni-MH 2300mAh) should work very well.

Regards,
John.

[Jon Nazareth]

Thanks, John, it looks as if we may be getting up some steam after all.

Jon

[Jon Nazareth]

Well, all went well and here's the finished loco.  It has only run up and down the short track that I have but seems to go along okay.  When we are out of this mess, it will be nice to see it on a proper track at a GTG.

Jon

[Jon Nazareth]

This should have been with the above post

Jon

[753]

Jon
You have made an excellent job of Enigma; I also like your coal wagons, should make a pleasant sight to see them working as a train.

Mike

[Jon Nazareth]

More problems.
I've fitted the MSC Crailcrest motor with the 9.6v battery pack and it did work for the time that it took to run up and down my 2m of track.  I thought all was okay and so, I put it away.  Then I thought that that it may be a good idea to put it on the rolling road to 'run it in a bit' and that's when the problems started.
There was no power and so, I connected the charger and it charged in about 2 minutes.  I couldn't seem to get the engine to run again and so i stripped it all down very carefully, I didn't want to scratch the paintwork, with the intention of running the chassis without the boiler.  I turned it on and it ran for about 1 minute and then nothing.  I tested the batteries, yes, I bought a tester and they measured about 2volts.  I charged them again, which only took about a minute, but they ran down again in about a minute.  It seems to me that the batteries are faulty.  I bought these last year so, not very old at all.  So, there are 8 batteries, 1.2v each, Ni-MH, 2300 mAh.  All of the wires are well insulated.  Any thoughts, anyone?

Jon

[John Candy]

It sounds as though the "smart charger" is not charging the cells and is shutting down after trying for a short while.
If the cells are depleted to 2V, then that will be the reason.
You need to try with a charger which is not "smart" to lift the charge sufficiently for the smart charger to pick up.
Why the cells are so depleted is another matter which may indicate a fault with one (or more) of the cells.
If you don't have access to another charger, try taking another charged cell pack of similar spec and try linking in parallel for a short while (DON'T connect the charger) ... it could revive the problem pack sufficiently.
If that doesn't work, try wiring another pack in series (observing the maximum capacity of the charger) and try charging.
Regards,
John

[Jon Nazareth]

John
This morning, I tested the batteries and they showed 8.44 volts.  The receiver is acting as it should re it's lights.  I turned everything on but the wheels would only turn a few degrees in each direction and then nothing.  I tested the batteries again and they showed 7.9 volts.  Do you think that it could be the transmitter?  I bought it March of this year but that doesn't mean that it isn't faulty.

Jon

[John Candy]

Jon,
What are the brands of ESC and r/c you have installed?
Assuming the unit is programmed to operate an ESC and not servos (as for live steam operation.....some units are intended for servo operation rather than ESC) then I still suspect either the motor or the battery. Do you have a 12V transformer of 2A capacity which you could connect to the motor with fly-leads to test? Alternatively a 12V lead/acid cell of the type used for alarm systems or even a car battery. It may be that 8/9V is insufficient for the motor or the motor is faulty and drawing excessive current.
I had a similar problem with my GWR railcar and it turned out the two motors were drawing 5Amps EACH and the 24V cell pack expired in under a minute....just as yours is doing. It involved changing the motors in the power bogies and all was fine.
I have tried testing a GRS chassis with a cell registering 9.8V and the wheels will not turn they just stutter....just insufficient oomph!
Regards,
John.

[Jon Nazareth]

John
Thank you for your help re these problems, it's much appreciated.
The receiver and transmitter were supplied by Micron Radio Control and Geoff Nicholls has a similar setup installed into his Sentinel so, I think that those units are okay.  Although the 9.6 V cell will run the motor, maybe it's not man enough to run the rest of the bits and bobs.  I think that the way forward for me is to scrap the idea of the 9.6 cell contained within the boiler and make up a covered wagon of some description that can contain a 12v cell, the receiver and the other bits and pieces that will be needed to power the loco.  I'm reluctant to change the motor at this stage as it would mean quite a bit of work disassembling one of the axles and fitting a new motor.  The firebox is quite small and I'm not sure, at this stage, if a Slaters 12v motor would fit.  If all of this fails then, I'll stick to building wagons and carriages  .

Jon

[John Candy]

Jon,

The two prototype Sentinels ("Plantagenet" and "Arthur") have 9.6V cells with a Mtroniks Viper ESC and Radiolink r/c. The motors are the "Powermaster" type which I sourced for sale through this forum and rated 15V.
Unless you have any auxiliary items (e.g. sound) installed, 9.6V nominal (which will actually charge to 12V) should be sufficient if motor is rated 12V and cells are in good shape.
If you want, I can send you a Powermaster motor to see if it works better/fits.
Regards,
John.

[Jon Nazareth]

John
Don't send anything yet as I want to try and iron out/work out whats going on with my setup.
I charged the 9.6v cell again and it went up to just over 10v.  The loco ran for about a minute then stopped.  I checked the voltage and it had dropped to 8.4v and refused to go again.  The charge socket and the toggle switch are mounted on a brass plate fixed to the copper smokebox, neither are insulated.  Should they be?

Jon

[John Branch]

For what it's worth-here are my views based on several hair-tearing experiences with equipment such as yours.
If the motor is free to turn (can you run it disconnected from the driven axle, and turn the motor easily with a finger, and push the loco without motor connected?), then , unless the motor is inherently faulty, it is unlikely to the user end of things that is the trouble.  To finally eliminate the motor, almost any battery from 6 to 12v should spin the motor healthily, keep the fuse in the circuit, but disconnect the line from the ESC. 
I have found that batteries can show fairly high unloaded voltages, but drop to very low ones under any sort of load.  Can you monitor the volts across the battery when trying to control the motor?  If it goes from 8v to 1 when you select go, it is probably the battery at fault.  Also-is your receiver powered by the esc, or a separate power supply?  The Rx normally needs 5.5 v, and if the basic supply is less than this you will get no sense from your controls.  My money is on the batteries either being at fault themselves, or the charger being too clever for its own good.

All the other advice is good too!
Best

John