Battery power

[Jon Nazareth]

I would like to say firstly that, I am quite ignorant when it comes to any sort of electrics.
What would happen if I tried to power a 12v Canon motor with a battery pack (from Strickalite) of 9.6v?  The reason for the question is because I want to house the batteries inside the boiler of the loco, Lion, that I'm building. Because of the rectangular door and small diameter of boiler, that's all that I can get in.  Two packs of four end to end would fit okay.  The other electrical bits and pieces should fit into the smokebox if I keep them to a minimum.  The tender is tiny and already built and therefore can't be considered.  I did read someone making a reference to Graphine.  Is that an alternative power source?

Jon

[Jon Nazareth]

P.S.  I should add that there are various 'things' written on the motor and they are, WL1-9038, FN30-T16N1B, 6GEX.

Jon

[Andy B]

Jon,
Which receiver (Rx) and speed controller (ESC) are you planning to use? They will have minimum voltage requirements.
The motor won't mind 9.6V - you just won't get full speed out of it.
Will a PP3 battery fit (48.5 mm × 26.5 mm × 17.5 mm). They are nominally 9v, so 2 in series would give c. 18V - if your Rx and ESC will take that input voltage.
What is your rectangular aperture size and maximum length for the battery / batteries?

You said the tender is tiny - but could you squeeze a PP3 in there? Every bit of extra battery capacity will help.

Andy

[Jon Nazareth]

Andy
I haven't decided on a receiver nor a speed controller as yet but will keep in mind the voltage requirement thing.
I've checked the length of the boiler and yes, two PP3 batteries will fit okay. 
The boiler length is 115mm with an outside diameter of 1 3/4".
The aperture is 40mm x 27m.
How will a voltage of 18 affect a 12v motor?
Are PP3 batteries re-chargeable?
Thanks for the reply, all very helpful information.

Jon

[Jon Nazareth]

Andy
Forgot to say that the tender is now a sealed unit and I can't get into it even if I wanted to.  Having said that though, a PP3 would have fitted inside but, there would have been wires passing from the tender to the loco which is what I was trying to avoid.

Jon

[Peaky 556]

Will a PP3 battery fit (48.5 mm × 26.5 mm × 17.5 mm). They are nominally 9v, so 2 in series would give c. 18V - if your Rx and ESC will take that input voltage.

Andy

Andy, is there a new breed of rechargeable, perhaps NiMH PP3 batteries on the market?  I have always viewed the PP3 as a source of voltage only with next to no current capacity, but then again I've not tried the Duracell type for traction duties; they may be far superior to the old blue "Ever-ready" that I remember as being next to useless in my childhood.
The general point I'm making though is that for traction duties, we really ought to look at the battery capacity in conjunction with the expected duty of the loco.  Those cells from Strikalite might have a 2Ah capacity, and be good to power for up to half an hour for a motor drawing only a couple of hundred milliamperes.  I'm not familiar with that Canon motor but if it was more power hungry then I'd be surprised if a couple of PP3s would allow it to pull the skin off a rice pudding!  I'd suggest that Jon takes advice on the current consumption from the supplier of the Canon motor before settling on a battery pack.

[cabbage]

I use NiMH PP3 batteries in my R/C TX23 equipment. They only deliver 7.2volts with a rating of 0.7Ah. They are best at deliverings a static voltage rather than "power" duties...

Regards

Ralph

[Jon Nazareth]

The Duracell Ultra PP3 is a NiMH rechargeable battery rated at 170 mAh.  I've just read that off it's data sheet and, I'm afraid, doesn't mean that much to me. But, does it make it any better to drive my loco?
I spoke to David at Slaters and he doesn't know anything about the rating of the Canon motor other than it's a 12 volt one.
I suppose that if I got about a couple of hours running from these batteries that would be okay.  What does the team think?

Jon

[John Candy]

Jon,

"Plantagenet" and "Arthur" (the two Sentinel locos) are powered adequately by 9.6V (8 x Ni-MH AA size) and have much smaller wheels than "Lion". The motor is one of the " Powermaster" type rated at 15V max and geared at 40:1 which gives a good max. speed....far faster than prototype!. Considering the type of load Lion will be hauling, 9.6V, should be perfectly adequate.

Regards,
John.

[cabbage]

To drive a G3 loco you need a battery rated at more than 1.3 Ah or 1300Ah... You may be able to do this by stacking up AA Batteries, but I feel that you are going to have to load the tender with a battery pack to have enough reserves. Aim for 12volts or 14.4volts.

If you are assembling your own AA battery pack from tagged cells make sure to give them plenty of air space to cool down during charging.

Regards

Ralph

[Peaky 556]

To drive a G3 loco you need a battery rated at more than 1.3 Ah or 1300Ah...
Regards
Ralph

I can only agree Ralph (with 1300mAh), I had a strong feeling that these little PP3 are next to useless on traction motors, more suited to very light current draw applications.  What Jon is thinking about has only 0.17 Ah, which compares very unfavourably with your suggested 1.3Ah. 

John, can you help us to quantify the current draw of the Canon motors, as sold by Slater's?  I'm assuming that Jon has the similar gearbox/motor to yours...

Regards, Tim

[John Candy]

John, can you help us to quantify the current draw of the Canon motors, as sold by Slater's?  I'm assuming that Jon has the similar gearbox/motor to yours...

Tim,
The Slaters Canon (coreless) motor I have (with 50:1 gearbox) is a 24V version (not a 12V motor, as mentioned by Jon).
It is the type fitted to the J39 (by Richard Toplis) and will be fitted to the GWR 2251 loco (under construction).
The AA cells I use are rated at 2300mAh.
Regards,
John.

[Jon Nazareth]

John
I have a 50:1 gearbox fitted to my Canon but neither on the box nor the motor does it say what the voltage is.  In fact, I didn't know that there was a choice in voltages.  Could you be so kind as to have a look at your motor and tell me if the label compares to the information above that is written on mine?

Jon

[Jon Nazareth]

I forgot to ask, can anyone tell me how I test this motor to see what the voltage is?

Jon

[John Candy]

Jon,
Unfortunately, the label is illegible.....the bearings were modified to take 8mm axles and the handling has rubbed the label clean.

The motor casing is 30mm dia x 41mm length,

Regards,
John.